FBI raids on Several militias.......arrests and siezures...

[gatlingun6]

I think a simpler explanation is that the low-lifes at CAIR are simply issuing press releases in order to incite their own constituency. And, of course, the MSM is uncritically lapping it up.

Wow LFS has just informed us that CAIRNS went before a Grand Jury and secure indictments. Who knew? So the Indictment issued by the federal court in Detroit is actually a CAIRNS Press release? I'm just speechless.

Gat6

[gatlingun6]

I find it interesting that when a Muslim murders numerous soldiers on American soil while screaming "Allah, Allah, Allah", the President immediately comes out and tells everyone not to jump to conclusions. But this group hasn't fired a single shot and everyone one is ready to demonize them as "Christian militia".

Thats because there are more guns in the hands of christians in this country, than there are in the hands of muslims.Christianinty is filled with rightwing extremists, Islam is a peaceful religion. Face it, once "they" are successful in brainwashing the majority of idiots in america into thinking christians are dangerous , they will be able to disarm america with a mandate from the dumbass masses.



....on a side note, some former FBI jackoff is on FOX right now talking about the incident yesterday, he just said, that "these religious, and militia groups are all anti-government groups" he is using words like Powderkeg, fanatics,religious zealots, and he is painting all militia groups with these words.....he even goes as far as saying that these arrests are not going to be the end all, they will produce more intel on "OTHER" groups because these types of people tend to train with other militias.....who may or may not be as religious........in other words....Its on. Like I said in an earlier posting, "who exactly sets the parameters for which group of people constitute an unorganized militia?....anyone know the answer to that?

It's not WHO sets the parameters for what constitutes an unorganized militia, it's WHAT, and that's COMMONSENSE! If you are in a militia ask yourself what's the purpose of the organization; why was it formed; Are they chartered or licensed by government at some level; they are affiliated with whom; what is the background of the rank and file and the leadership; when were they formed; what have they been writing and showing on the internet; what are they talking about in private; etc.

It's really not difficult to tell t if that militia you want to join is an extremist organization .

GS78

[gatlingun6]

I find it interesting and very strange that the powers that be turn a blind eye on the Muslim extremes such as the situation near Red House, Virginia. There is a "compound" near there where the Muslims have a LARGE group of trailers, double-wides and buildings where a whole community of them live. They refuse to allow their female children to go to school, and no one is objecting. They have training facilities both above and below ground, and no one seems to think that maybe, just maybe they are up to no good. They are followers of one of the most radical Muslims clerics that ever was, and the powers that be ignore them. Why? Can you imagine what would happen if several hundred Christians built and occupied such a fenced compound and refused to allow anyone in but their members? Our anti-American pro-Muslim African president and his regime would be sending the military, FBI, CIA, and anyone else that they could think of in to wipe them out.

Let me throw a real curve into this discussion. Has anyone considered that the "Meet and Greet" at SgtBill's place might be considered a meeting of "militia" by some whacko federal agent? After all, it will be a group of mostly white male Christians practicing with all sorts of firearms. The FBI said that they had a mole inside that group they raided....wonder how many FBI agents we have as members here? Just something to think about......

WildBill what's the problem? You might have a FBI mole, big deal. Since you are obviously doing nothing wrong why be concerned? Isn't that always your mantra when Muslims complain? If they haven't done anything wrong, what's the problem? Your post is further a mass of contradiction and illogical reasoning. Here's why:
1. Yes I can imagine it because White Power and other Groups have built, and do have compounds across the country that are on private property and do not allow access to government or anyone else. Are you really trying to deny the obvious? So that part of your post is a flat out Lie!!! There is no other way to put it. Spin is fine, satire is fine and so is sarcasm, but when something is a lie we ought not to try and sugar coat it.
2. You muse that some "whacko" federal agent might see your meeting as a militia and infiltrate, it but the Muslims around Red House are fine. Would you care to tell us just how you know that? You know that government not only does not know a thing about the Muslim compound but are not interested in knowing. Only someone who is well placed in the government would have such knowledge. Are you coming out and becoming a whistle blower? Maybe you blew your own cover. Perhaps you are the mole.
3. About the Muslim compound, how extensive was your recon...oops I meant trespass on private property. Do you have video of all the weapons, IEDs, suicide vests, and other stuff stored there? Did you tap their phones and recorded all the Jihadi talk?

Or is all this just another variation of Christian = Good - Muslim = bad. If you ask most people they would cite the only important difference in the thinking of the Hutaree and Islamic militants, well maybe two. The Hutaree called their God, God while Muslim extremist call him Allah! Now let's all take a deep breathe and wait to see if the Hutaree went beyond the thinking to committing a crime.

Gat6

[gatlingun6]

Can you imagine what would happen if several hundred Christians built and occupied such a fenced compound and refused to allow anyone in but their members?

That happened last year in Utah I believe, The feds surrounded the place and then took all the children and made them wards of the state....maybe someone near red barn can make an anonymous phone call saying those muslim girls are being abused.....then the feds would have to go in .......



I doubt the fbi had a mole, regardless of what they say publicly. That group was a tight knit group , so tight even the neighbors didn't realize what they were up to. The fbi took its orders from a pro radical muslim group, and the Southern Law and Poverty center{similar to the ACLU,} , another apologist organization for the enemies of this country.

Wow! Stunning! Amazing! Reprehensible. GS78 is such an anti-Federalist that now he sides with grown men who marry teenage girls and have multiple wives.
Gat6

[Taggure]

It's not WHO sets the parameters for what constitutes an unorganized militia, it's WHAT, and that's COMMONSENSE! If you are in a militia ask yourself what's the purpose of the organization; why was it formed; Are they chartered or licensed by government at some level; they are affiliated with whom; what is the background of the rank and file and the leadership; when were they formed; what have they been writing and showing on the internet; what are they talking about in private; etc.

It's really not difficult to tell t if that militia you want to join is an extremist organization .

GS78

That is true, we should all use commonsense but, in today’s environment would it really matter if you did all the research? Just the word Militia or the fact that you own and exercise your right to use guns and gather with those that have the same interest atomically puts you in a bad light in the Lefts view. To outsiders Our Shoot and Greets could be misunderstood as well, and through no fault of ours; we the VGOF get a bad name. That is my concern. I really just enjoy shooting and yes I believe that our constitutional rights are slowly be squished by the left. But I am a registered voter and I will exercise my rights this November and vote. I hope that it will make a difference, and will try to get as many like mined people to vote as well. I see no lines in politics all I care about is that the person that I vote for will have the same concerns and goals in upholding the Constitution that I do. If that person is a Democrat Republican, or and Independent party it really does not mater to me.

Think about this, we are all obliviously interested in guns and shooting or we would not be on this forum. What research was done with the members of this forum any of us done? I did my due diligence before I decided to join and found that the forum seemed that it would be a helpful fun place to have good conversations. All of the conversations that we have here have guns and the 2nd Amendment rights associated to it (well maybe not some of the jokes but you understand). There are those here on the forums that are distrustful of the government and the media and they have their reasons and we should respect that, and there are others that believe the Government is only here to protect us and then there are those like me that is somewhere in between. To me trust has to be earned and here lately there have been things that have made me ask questions.

Here I go with the long rants again so I will close it out, but the main thing is to remember that we are all here on this forum because we have an interest in guns and shooting them for fun and sport, and anything that can affect our sport is for concern and should be discussed here.

[gatlingun6]

First, you, I and everyone else here actually know NOTHING! None of us were part of the group or the raid. All we think we know is what the government is putting out and what do we know about government propaganda? It is a common tactic with prosecutors is convict people in the media long before their trial. Same thing with leveraging lots of charges, throw enough sh*t and something might stick. They make you think you are getting a deal when they know full well they can't prove most of what the charged you with.

Second, grand jury, been there done that, it's a joke. We tried to throw a case out (because it was rediculous) and the prosecutor got the judge to let him "rework" it and bring it back to the next grand jury (which wouldn't be us). How many times was that case before a grand jury? Who knows, but I do know it will keep coming back till someone bites.

Third, Secretary Rice's comment on 9/12 have shown to be false. There were previous unsuccessful attempts to crash planes into buildings and if I recall correctly, a government report/audit suggesting this vulnerability. It wasn't a new idea, but rather one that hadn't been successfully used on a large scale till then.

as you well know ignorance of the law is no excuse

Do you even know where this comes from? I doubt it because if you did you wouldn't use it to justify "conspiresy" charges.


Finally, thank you for describing the America no freedom loving person wants to live in; a country where anyone who expresses dissent is actively monitored by the government because they *could* do something in the future. You come off almost like a distopia novel...

Mr. Gunderwood your outrage about living in a country where those who dissent might be monitored is welcomed. Unfortunately, your outrage was missing when the legislation that gave our government that authority was conceived and written in total secret, and plopped down for an up or down vote without giving legislators any time to read the bill.

If you didn't join us who protested long and loud back then, why are you protesting now? In 2001 a lone Democrat, Senator Russ Feingold voted no. In the House 65 Democrats voted No, while only 3 Republicans voted NO.

To be fair, however, you are ignoring history because you have always lived in a country where anti-government dissent is actively monitored!
1. The FBI under Hoover not only monitored dissenters, he monitored people and groups he personally didn't like. He illegally monitored government officials. He employed his own team of burglars as well.
2. In the 50s, the red scare era, organizations were banned and careers destroyed through McCarthyism's tactics
3. In the 60s Civil Rights and anti-war organizations were monitored and suppressed.
4. President Nixon actively monitored and suppressed his political opposition
5. In the 40s hell you didn't even have to dissent, just be Japanese American and click you were locked up.

American government from the very beginning has always actively monitored and suppressed dissent. Every State does. The USA Patriot Act just made it easier, under this act government could legally do what it previously did illegally.

If, at the time, you were on the side of the ACLU and others who vehemently opposed rushing USA PATRIOT into law with provisions that seemed to be clearly unconstitutional then I sincerely apologize.
Gat6

[GS78]

I find it interesting that when a Muslim murders numerous soldiers on American soil while screaming "Allah, Allah, Allah", the President immediately comes out and tells everyone not to jump to conclusions. But this group hasn't fired a single shot and everyone one is ready to demonize them as "Christian militia".

Thats because there are more guns in the hands of christians in this country, than there are in the hands of muslims.Christianinty is filled with rightwing extremists, Islam is a peaceful religion. Face it, once "they" are successful in brainwashing the majority of idiots in america into thinking christians are dangerous , they will be able to disarm america with a mandate from the dumbass masses.



....on a side note, some former FBI jackoff is on FOX right now talking about the incident yesterday, he just said, that "these religious, and militia groups are all anti-government groups" he is using words like Powderkeg, fanatics,religious zealots, and he is painting all militia groups with these words.....he even goes as far as saying that these arrests are not going to be the end all, they will produce more intel on "OTHER" groups because these types of people tend to train with other militias.....who may or may not be as religious........in other words....Its on. Like I said in an earlier posting, "who exactly sets the parameters for which group of people constitute an unorganized militia?....anyone know the answer to that?

It's not WHO sets the parameters for what constitutes an unorganized militia, it's WHAT, and that's COMMONSENSE! If you are in a militia ask yourself what's the purpose of the organization; why was it formed; Are they chartered or licensed by government at some level; they are affiliated with whom; what is the background of the rank and file and the leadership; when were they formed; what have they been writing and showing on the internet; what are they talking about in private; etc.

It's really not difficult to tell t if that militia you want to join is an extremist organization .

GS78

whats the matter jimbo ? you seem even more whacked out today than usual? chip getting a little heavy on the shoulder?

[GS78]

Can you imagine what would happen if several hundred Christians built and occupied such a fenced compound and refused to allow anyone in but their members?

That happened last year in Utah I believe, The feds surrounded the place and then took all the children and made them wards of the state....maybe someone near red barn can make an anonymous phone call saying those muslim girls are being abused.....then the feds would have to go in .......



I doubt the fbi had a mole, regardless of what they say publicly. That group was a tight knit group , so tight even the neighbors didn't realize what they were up to. The fbi took its orders from a pro radical muslim group, and the Southern Law and Poverty center{similar to the ACLU,} , another apologist organization for the enemies of this country.

Wow! Stunning! Amazing! Reprehensible. GS78 is such an anti-Federalist that now he sides with grown men who marry teenage girls and have multiple wives.
Gat6

c'mon jimmy , you can do better. your assignment is to re-read the post until "you get it".

[GS78]

Jim doesn't sincerely apologize for anything, except enemies of the nation. Then he prostrates himself like a professional mourner, in fact Obama is probably the only one better at it.

[GS78]

Sounds like a huge mess to me, it also sounds as if both sides have no tolerance for the other side which is just asking for trouble. An extremist of any religion or belief has always proven to be a bad thing as history has shown over and over again. But like they say there's one in every crowd, lol.

I don't believe what the media and feds are putting out .

Can you be a bit more specific? What don't you believe that the feds are putting out? Is the indictment fabricated? Are the facts stated in the indictment made up and are false? Finally, you don't believe what media? Is there any media you care to reference putting out accurate information?
Gat6

No jimmy, I don't rely on others to become informed, haven't since I was .....probably your age. I have read the indictment. I stand by my post.

[GS78]

[ It's not the specifics that are at issue - it's the angle, the spin - the little editorial comments that the media chooses to add wherever it so desires that makes a once true and believable story into a fairy tale - all in the name of sensationalism and attempts at garnering an audience.

Exactly, and jimmy knows this, he is not dumb. This group of nutz that got busted for playing army with real guns, is the perfect "can't shoot straight gang". Thats why they were selected for this. Even the spokesman for the Michigan Militia, who gave interviews immediately after the arrests explained their tactics and training techniques . ....



that statement was included, word for word in the Indictment handed down. exactly.

[gatlingun6]

Can you imagine what would happen if several hundred Christians built and occupied such a fenced compound and refused to allow anyone in but their members?

That happened last year in Utah I believe, The feds surrounded the place and then took all the children and made them wards of the state....maybe someone near red barn can make an anonymous phone call saying those muslim girls are being abused.....then the feds would have to go in .......



I doubt the fbi had a mole, regardless of what they say publicly. That group was a tight knit group , so tight even the neighbors didn't realize what they were up to. The fbi took its orders from a pro radical muslim group, and the Southern Law and Poverty center{similar to the ACLU,} , another apologist organization for the enemies of this country.

And GS78 slips farther and farther into the twilight zone with his over the top accusations, and conspiracy theories. I actually deleted what I was going to say. I'll just wait with bated breathe to see just how far you stray into a dimension of your own creation. Are you sure you don't want to wait a bit and at least hear the evidence? What's your problem with the SLPC anyway?
Gat6

[gatlingun6]

WildBill did you know they patrol the perimeter in Red House carrying AK's ? And a couple of them were arrested after 911 for supplying firearms to terriosts. Plus the main road in was named after the terriost that ordered Daniel Pearle beheaded.

As long as the weapons had no automatic capability, what's the problem? Isn't it just law abiding citizens patrolling their property? Shouldn't you all be supporting their right to do that? Can anyone please point me to the indictments, and the subsequent trial information on the 2 who sold firearms to terrorists? Is the main road private or public? If it's private why would you support the government coercing the owner to change the name of something on his property. If it's a State road, VA does not need a reason they can just change it as far as I know.

Back to a private road. Doesn't the owner have a 1st Amendment right to name the road whatever he wants? Btw what is the address of this place and the name of the road in question.

Gat6

[zephyp]

And GS78 slips farther and farther into the twilight zone with his over the top accusations, and conspiracy theories. I actually deleted what I was going to say. I'll just wait with bated breathe to see just how far you stray into a dimension of your own creation. Are you sure you don't want to wait a bit and at least hear the evidence? What's your problem with the SLPC anyway?
Gat6

You need to go read the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution Jim.

By the way - its "baited breath" not "bated breathe." I though you liberals were the brainy ones?

[Vahunter]

WildBill did you know they patrol the perimeter in Red House carrying AK's ? And a couple of them were arrested after 911 for supplying firearms to terriosts. Plus the main road in was named after the terriost that ordered Daniel Pearle beheaded.

As long as the weapons had no automatic capability, what's the problem? Isn't it just law abiding citizens patrolling their property? Shouldn't you all be supporting their right to do that? Can anyone please point me to the indictments, and the subsequent trial information on the 2 who sold firearms to terrorists? Is the main road private or public? If it's private why would you support the government coercing the owner to change the name of something on his property. If it's a State road, VA does not need a reason they can just change it as far as I know.

Back to a private road. Doesn't the owner have a 1st Amendment right to name the road whatever he wants? Btw what is the address of this place and the name of the road in question.

Gat6

Hey jimbob when you quote someone why not use the whole thing, not just what you want people to hear. I told GS78 that they patroled the perimter because there was no law saying they can't, same as if I wanted to. I beginning to think you are either obama or holder since you bring up only part of a quote, not the whole truth for people to hear.

[zephyp]

Hey Henry, you know how these liberal socialists are...they invent things trying to make us look bad. I learned a long time ago that is a way for someone to compensate for their own shortcomings...and it looks like he's got many...

[vt800c]

They would shoot guns and often wore camouflage, according to Brugger and her daughter, Heidi Wood.

Sounds to me like members of the US Military, hunters out for a weekend or some kids I know who play paintball.

[gatlingun6]

I not trying to be a smart ass but I guess they are allowed to patrol with AK's because there's no law saying they can't. The last I heard the FBI was keeping a close watch on them. There was a Christian group trying to get the road name changed but the county big wheels wouldn't hear of it. The same group dropped pamplets from a plane trying to get all the neighbors in the area to let their voice he heard about changing the road name. The Christian group was charged with littering but was not prosecuted. There as so many building violations in the compound that it isn't funny. But the county officials won't do anything about it.[/quote]
what is so unsettling to me is that even though these muslims, or some have been arrested already for dealings with terrorists, and I would assume illegally selling guns to them(according to one post here) but the feds don't intervene or even investigate them, but they do go after these american militia groups for "thinking" about a crime?[/quote]
*********
I'm truly curious GS78, who in this group was arrested for selling guns to terrorists, and what terrorist individual or group were they sold to. How many guns and what type were sold. Btw under what federal statute(s) were they charged? I'm assuming they were found guilty and are now serving what kind of prison sentence, so what was that sentence. Were other members of the community on that compound also charged as co-conspirators? If so, how many and were they found guilty as well?
Now you did use the word assume at one point, and according to one post in another. However I make no assumption about your post.

May I ask for the sources you used to verify your assumptions and the post you read?

Gat6

[gatlingun6]

that was weird.......

Top seven reasons Gat6 goes silent:

7. Gat6 is actually a far right wing extremest trying so hard to appear not to be, he actually became a hard left wing extremest instead and doesn't know what to post as cover any more.

6. Gat6 is actually one of those learning computers that you talk to, but after my last post he divided by zero and exploded.

5. Gat6 is a government agent sent to "monitor" us and is off the clock now.

4. Gat6 is a government informant trying to provoke us into saying something conspiratorial and finally realized you commit conspiracy by just getting out of bed.

3. Gat6 finally took his meds.

2. Gat6 decided we're not cool enough to troll any more today.


And the number one reason Gat6 goes silent...

1. Gat6 actually took the time to read the thread and hasn't finished yet...



P.S. This post is intended to have some fun at your expense Gat6 and as such, may be construed as an insult if you choose.

Gat is impervious to insults, so he chooses to ignore any comments that could be construed as insult. If however that's how some get their jolly s have fun.s.
No, I didn't find your post insulting, I can see satire, even bad satire in a post. I didn't ignore your long post. It seemed to me that you thought about it before you replied. The least I can do is the same, since yours was a lengthy post. I don't know about you, but there are other things going on that require my attention.

Recheck your number 5, IF there is any truth to it, do you think one would be assigned to monitor just one site? Of course not! Monitoring requires written reports and other investigative efforts as well. If anyone was as dumb or arrogant as the leader of the Hutaree, who used the same nick all over the internet, don't you think the site monitor would check other sites for some of the same nicks that appear here? Uh oh, what's that? Must be the clicking sounds of people deleting and changing nicks on all those other sites. No wonder sites like Oath Keepers, and others went from open to closed forums. Unfortunately that does not stop surveillance.

It was also funny to see a bunch of sites trying to eliminate references to Hutaree links and Hutaree member comments. As it turns out, your number 1 reason is correct that's exactly it, I read threads before I formulate a reply if any.

Now if everyone will repeat after me and take an oath to do the same, it could do wonders for the discussion on any topic.

Your reply is forthcoming. Surely you didn't think I could let a long post like that pass without comment.

Gat6

[gatlingun6]

that was weird.......

Top seven reasons Gat6 goes silent:

7. Gat6 is actually a far right wing extremest trying so hard to appear not to be, he actually became a hard left wing extremest instead and doesn't know what to post as cover any more.

6. Gat6 is actually one of those learning computers that you talk to, but after my last post he divided by zero and exploded.

5. Gat6 is a government agent sent to "monitor" us and is off the clock now.

4. Gat6 is a government informant trying to provoke us into saying something conspiratorial and finally realized you commit conspiracy by just getting out of bed.

3. Gat6 finally took his meds.






2. Gat6 decided we're not cool enough to troll any more today.


And the number one reason Gat6 goes silent...

1. Gat6 actually took the time to read the thread and hasn't finished yet...



P.S. This post is intended to have some fun at your expense Gat6 and as such, may be construed as an insult if you choose.

Gat is impervious to insults, so he chooses to ignore any comments that could be so construed. If however that's how some get their jolly s have fun.

No, I didn't find your post insulting, I can see satire, even bad satire. I didn't ignore your long post either. It seemed to me that you thought about it before you replied. The least I can do is the same. I don't know about you, but there are other things going on that require my attention.

Recheck your number 5, IF there is any truth to it, do you think one would be assigned to monitor just one site? Of course not! Monitoring requires written reports and other investigative efforts. If anyone was as dumb or arrogant as the leader of the Hutaree, who used the same nick all over the internet, don't you think the site monitor would check other sites for some of the same nicks that appear here? Uh oh, what's that? Must be the clicking sounds of people deleting and changing nicks on all those other sites. No wonder sites like Oath Keepers, and others went from open to closed forums. Unfortunately that does not stop surveillance.

It was also funny to see a bunch of sites trying to eliminate references to Hutaree links and Hutaree member comments. As it turns out, your number 1 reason is correct that's exactly it, I read threads before I formulate a reply if any.

Now if everyone will repeat after me and take an oath to do the same, it could do wonders for the discussion on any topic.

Your reply is forthcoming. Surely you didn't think I could let a long post like that pass without comment.

Gat6