Insulting? indeed you should know about that since you insult to talk about one being insulting.
Don't quite follow this one. I said you shouldn't need to make a snide remark (true to form) about GS just because you disagree with him. You should be able to argue without resorting to personal insults. Why does pointing this out this insult you? I could see it offending or embarrassing you because I pointed out your folly, but insult? An insult would be something like calling you an uneducated, authoritarian apologist. See the difference (no insult intended, just trying to point out why I'm confused)?
I have no reason to be suspicious in this case "YET" do you?
Yes, because the government did it and no, I'm not alone in this...just for starters:
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquence. It is force. And force, like fire, is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington
"... God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." -- Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950)
(One might ask why a rebellion was needed? Wasn't like he distrusted the government he just fought for or anything...)
The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government." Patrick Henry
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves." William Pitt in the House of Commons November 18, 1783
(at first this seems unrelated until you understand the context of necessity)
"Americans [have] the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust their people with arms." - JAMES MADISON
"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." - Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.
"Whenever governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins." - Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts
(think those last three through...militia, arms, government)
"Most codes extend their definitions of treason to acts not really against one's country. They do not distinguish between acts against the government, and acts against the oppressions of the government. The latter are virtues, yet have furnished more victims to the executioner than the former, because real treasons are rare; oppressions frequent. The unsuccessful strugglers against tyranny have been the chief martyrs of treason laws in all countries." --Thomas Jefferson: Report on Spanish Convention, 1792.
(Oppression more common than treason, hmm)
I could go on, but you get the point.
How often must I use the word alleged as I have repeatedly done all over this case before you understand that means they are innocent until proven guilty.
Twice and only in reference to Islamic Terrorists. If that is what you meant, it was not clear at all. On the contrary you seem all too quick to call them actual terrorists in your posts (no qualifiers). Moving on...
Unfortunately what I'm hearing here is a bunch of excuses as to why these Christians are being unfairly maligned by a vindictive government. What I hear in this room is not that they are innocent until proven guilty. What I'm hearing is they are innocent, the charges are trumped up because they are Christians, they were just having fun in the woods, so there is no need of a trial. Really? I'm not surprised because that's the over arching theme of all too many posts in this room, i.e. Christians good, Muslims bad, all non Christians bad!
Are you reading the same thing I am? I had to go back and check just to make sure, but Muslims were introduced to this militia raid thread because:
GS78 wrote:Muslim leaders in Chicago are "following developments of the arrests with great interest and concern," says Ahmed Rehab, Executive Director of CAIR Chicago.
"If some of the initial reports are true. Then, these radical groups are a chilling indication that anti-Muslim hysteria in some circles may be developing into stages of organized terroristic activity," Rehab said Sunday night.
For some odd reason CAIR believes this group was out to get them. This contradicts the official story of conspiring to kill a cop and then killing more at the funeral. Perhaps CAIR knows something we don't. Point of law here, but they are legally innocent today. You can't claim innocent until proven guilty and then rant and rave every time someone suggests they may actually be innocent. To do so makes you look disingenuous about thinking they are innocent until proven guilty. Disinformation campaigns have become standard operating procedure for the government.
I think the issue with Muslims and the government is there appears to be a double standard with this administration and the media. They call TEA party protesters certified, guilty as charged terrorists and Muslim terrorist are alleged, might have, supposed mastermind, etc. Not necessarily in every case, but have you heard anyone in the administration or media say anything about these just being alleged terrorists? It could just be PC gone wild.
If you read everything on that Hutaree website and didn't see anything alarming it's because you didn't want to see it or believe what you read.
I took a quick look around their site and yes, they are wacky. The whole end times cult like stuff is just crazy. Don't think I said anything to the contrary.
What you all fail to see is that the Constitution is blind to religion. Whatever you think we ought to do to ferret out Islamists who threaten the State can and will be used to go after anyone other group that is perceived to be a threat to the State.
You don't know me, but I have warned that some of the steps we have taken to "get the terrorists" will come back to haunt us. Patriot Acts anyone?
If this was a group of Muslim individuals running around in the woods doing the exact same thing and had been charged with the exact same crime there are those in this forum who are indignant and suspicious now would be cheering the arrest!
You may have a point here, but if history is any indication, the administration and the media would be downplaying it vice what they are doing now. Besides, cheering is such a strong word.
When the blind Sheik was arrested who in this forum who claim to be naturally suspicious of the Federal government were saying, just a darn minute something doesn't add up here, or I don't have enough information to decide what's going on. The fact is no one!
Nice straw-man. You are asserting something here that I don't think any one can disprove. At least I can't because I wasn't on this forum when it happened...did this forum even exist?
It's my fervent hope that one day some people here will understand that when you are OK with how people different from you are treated under the law, you have actually blessed your group being treated the same way!
Finally we agree on something. For far too long white, middle class Americans have assumed the pseudo-police state would leave them alone and are now shocked to learn that they assumed wrong.
but was not prosecuted. 
There as so many building violations in the compound that it isn't funny. But the county officials won't do anything about it.
