Will be purchasing a Glock 23 in the upcoming weeks and need a good IWB holster, I have narrowed it down to these 2. Both are about the same price (once you add the horsehide for the CB ST) so price is really not am issue.
Comfort is the number 1 issue here. I am "downgrading" from a Sig P226 to a Glock 23 due to issues carrying the Sig (comfort), so in a effort to carry more I am buying a smaller/lighter gun and a nice holster.
I have not read a single bad thing about either holster, both have great reviews. The one thing that bothers me about the CB ST are the crosses cut out of the belt holders. I am not going to start a holy war on here, but I really do not like the look of that, particularly because it is going to be noticeable when I have a shirt tucked in. If somebody had experience with both and was able to ouch that the CB was THAT much more comfortable and better, then I would forgo my issues with the crosses and buy the ST.
However if both are equally comfortable and constructed, I think I am leaning towards the Comp-Tac.
Dont know if you looked or not but I favor the Bianchi Pro. Has a clip so you can wear with out without a belt. No active retention. Comfortable, stylish, affordable...
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...
Anytime. Let us know what you decide and how it works out. Most guns stores dont carry a decent selection of holsters and its hard to gauge one online unless someone posts up a review.
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...
I went with the Comp-Tac MTAC. I just can't get past the crosses on the ST. I am sure I would be happy with either as I just spent the entire afternoon researching both, but am confident I made a good decision.
The Sig is getting sold tonight (tear in eye), she has been a great gun. I would love to keep her and also get the Glock, but funds are low these days. She is going to a good home to a fellow co-worker so I may get to see her every once in awhile.
Now, if I could just get Town and Gun in Collinsville to get their shipment of Glock 23's faster I will be all set!
Thanks again everyone, i'll post up some pics when they arrive.
I was going to say skip the crosses on the CB and go with the V-Clip... it attaches via velcro to the back of your belt, so there are no "clips" on the outside of the belt, no tell-tale sign of a holster. But, I guess I was a little late to the party.
Collinsville, huh? You're not far from Roanoke Firearms - and they have the 23 in stock... Just as info.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. Resistance to Tyranny is Obedience to God.
Collinsville will give me public safety Glock pricing. I actually work with a guy that works PT at Roanoke firearms and they cant touch Town Police Supply's price for me.
I know this is a bit late but this may be helpful in the future for others who read this...
1. You can buy the CB and buy clips that don't have crosses on them if you don't want crosses.
2. The CB packs slimmer than does the MTAC, but the MTAC has thicker kydex with (I think) adjustable tension. IMO, I like em' slim!
There have been numerous posts & comments in various forums regarding the relative merits of the Crossbreed SuperTuck and the Comp-Tac MTAC holster (although a more “apples to apples” comparison would be to compare the Crossbreed to the Comp-Tac Spartan). The majority of the comments are subjective, i.e., “I have the Comp-Tac (or Crossbreed) and wouldn’t do without it”, “I got mine in 5 days instead of two weeks”, etc. Also a lot has been said about workmanship and that the Comp-Tac MTAC (but not the Spartan) is “finished” on both sides unlike the Crossbreed – which is true, but not necessarily good.
Rather than repeating all the above, there are a couple of basic design differences that I haven’t seen discussed thoroughly and think are worth considering and would like to point them out. I haven’t included pictures, but you can go to either web site and have a look.
PERSONAL BACKGROUND/PREFERENCES
I’m 5’ 7” at 160 lbs. I started carrying IWB last year. I wear IWB holsters at 3:00-3:30 because – 1) It prints less for me at that position, 2) I can get at it easier, 3) I bend down a lot and the 4:00-5:00 position recommended by some causes the gun to print, and 4) I find the 4:00-5:00 position uncomfortable when driving.
I prefer about a 30-35 degree cant angle for concealment purposes because I believe the narrower the gun profile, the easier it is to conceal. As an example, it is easier to conceal, say, a knife with a 1.5 inch width than a gun with a 4 inch width (the height of the gun with no cant). So, if you carry a gun with zero cant, i.e., the gun barrel is perpendicular to the floor, you have the maximum concealment problem – the height of the gun (in this case it’s the width of what we’re trying to conceal of, say 4 inches). However, if the gun is canted forward at a 30-35 degree angle where the butt of the handle is somewhat vertically in line with the bottom of the muzzle, the overall profile is somewhat narrower because it is a triangular shape as opposed to a rectangle. But more importantly, the top of the gun we’re trying to hide is the top of a triangle, not a flat wide part – the butt of the gun.
To get my other personal preferences out of the way, I’m a leather fan; I’ve done leather work for years and love the look and feel of good leather – I have a box of beautiful leather holsters I’ve accumulated over the years. However, nowadays, I consider a holster a “tool” rather than a “look good/feel good” thing, and it’s been my experience that Kydex or a Kydex/leather combo (especially for IWB) is a more efficient and effective tool. Therefore, my preference for an IWB (especially tuckable) holster is a hybrid leather/Kydex holster like the MTAC or Crossbreed holsters.
I have three Crossbreed MiniTucks (a smaller version of the SuperTuck); one for a Ruger LCP, one for a Kahr PM-9, and one for a Walther PPS 9mm. I also have an MTAC holster for the PPS.
All the MiniTucks work great and are extremely comfortable. The one for the LCP works just the way it came, but I had to adjust the one for the Kahr PM9 one hole for a steeper cant angle (forward) and better concealment. As for the PPS MiniTuck, I had to adjust the front down one hole and the back up one hole (to get the cant angle I talked about above – more about how I did that later). I originally ordered a SuperTuck for a Walther PPS 9mm which I subsequently returned – the SuperTuck is larger than the MiniTuck and the problem I had with it was the leather that drops down where the front belt clip fastens dug into the top of my thigh when sitting – very uncomfortable, so I returned it with the thought of getting a MiniTuck for the PPS. But then I thought I might as well try the MTAC so I’ll know the difference between the two. The lower front of the MTAC is cut higher and the holster itself is not nearly as wide as the SuperTuck, and therefore, I don’t have the problem with the MTAC digging into my thigh when seated. But, I wasn’t entirely satisfied with the MTAC, so I got a MiniTuck for the PPS so now I can do a direct comparison between the Crossbreed MiniTuck and the MTAC holster, at least for the PPS.
Now to the design differences between the Crossbreed and MTAC:
ANGLE OF CANT VS. CONCEALMENT AND OTHER CONSIDERATIONS:
Both the Crossbreed and MTAC holsters come with the Kydex part mounted at about a 25 degree angle forward. If you want to adjust the cant angle, here’s what happens and this is one basic design difference between the Crossbreed holsters (SuperTuck and MiniTuck) and MTAC. On the Crossbreed holsters, the cant adjustment is done via three vertically spaced holes in the leather where the belt clips (with one hole at the bottom) fasten. On the MTAC, the adjustment is done through five holes in the belt clips where they fasten to one hole with a Tee-Nut on the holster. This causes different actions to take place.
On the SuperTuck, you may have one adjustment hole to raise the holster, so you can either raise the back one hole and/or lower the front. But on the MiniTuck it’s already in the lowest hole, so your only choice is to lower the holster (use a higher hole) in the front. Or maybe you lower the front and the back. Either way, if you lower more than one hole, you’ve now lowered the holster below the waist line of the pants, so when you draw, your gun may snag on your pants waistband, and when you attempt to re-holster, chances are the hem of your pants will get wedged in between the gun and the Kydex part. But since the adjustments for the MTAC are by using one of 5 holes in the belt clips, and it comes set to the middle holes, you have much more flexibility in adjusting the cant. You can raise the back and/or lower the front without putting the holster below the belt line.
And, there is yet another consideration. Since the distance between the top of the belt clip and the mounting hole for the belt clip is fixed on the Crossbreed holsters, and it is variable (5 adjustment holes) on the MTAC, it means the “tuckable” area doesn’t change on the Crossbreed holsters when adjusting, but does change on the MTAC holsters. If you lower the MTAC holsters, you actually gain more “tuckable” area, but if you raise the holster, you lose “tuckable” area; “tuckable” area being the distance between the top of the clip/top of the belt and the mounting screw where you tuck in your shirt.
RETENTION ADJUSTMENT ON COMP-TAC VS. NONE ON CROSSBREED; MOUNTING
The MTAC holsters have an adjustment for adjusting the retention tension and the Crossbreeds do not – another basic design difference. At first, you might be saying to yourself (as I did), COOL, I can adjust the retention on my MTAC holster without the dreaded hair dryer… Well, let’s see if this is really a good thing. The Crossbreed holsters have a solid piece of Kydex riveted firmly to the leather on the leading edge (the edge where the sights are mounted) and trailing edge (the edge where the trigger guard is) and each holster is fitted so the retention is perfect – at least it is on my MiniTucks. (If you believe yours is not, you can send it back or get out the hair dryer…) The Kydex on the MTAC is firmly held down by two screws along the forward edge affixed to the leather. However the trailing edge is “floating” above the leather by about ¼ inch and fastened to the leather by two screws near the bottom of the holster with rubber grommets between the Kydex and leather so retention can be “adjusted” by these two screws. BUT, this is an IWB holster and therefore the top of the holster is also compressed by the wearer’s belt – which crosses the Kydex (which is about ¼ inch away from the leather at the top trailing edge as mentioned above) well above the two adjustment screws and, therefore, tends to close the top of the holster the ¼ inch allowed for adjustment, to the degree the gun width will allow it when holstered, thereby increasing retention tension. However, when the gun is drawn, the tension of the wearer’s belt closes the top of the holster the full ¼” or so of adjustment making the top of the holster narrower than the gun. Therefore, re-holstering is more difficult because the Kydex is compressed toward the leather by the wearer’s belt. In fact, I can’t re-holster (one-handed) without pointing the gun at my hip at about a 45 degree angle (not a pretty picture) and then rotating it to pry the top of the Kydex away from the leather. The other option is to use two hands. And, of course, the tighter you wear your belt, the worse the problem with the MTAC becomes. This also causes the gun to be a bit more difficult to draw, but that’s not as objectionable. On the Crossbreed holsters, this is not an issue – the Kydex is stiff, securely riveted in place, and retains its shape and retention tension.
INTERCHANGEABILITY FOR DIFFERENT GUNS
The MTAC mounting system for the Kydex does have an advantage. The mounting holes are standard on the MTAC holsters allowing the Kydex body to be removed and replaced with one for a different gun making the bodies interchangeable. This is true between MTAC bodies, and between Spartan bodies, but these two are not interchangeable since the Tee-nuts are fastened to the Kydex bodies on the MTAC whereas the bodies for the Spartan have through-holes and the Tee-nuts are sunk into the leather – like they are on the Crossbreed.
BELT CLIPS, ETC.
The Crossbreed holsters come with the somewhat controversial Crossbreed logo black metal clips with a cross embossed in them. The belt can either be threaded through the clips or the clips can be snapped over the belt. Crossbreed also offers “J” clips that go over the pants waistband and under the belt (and therefore the gun hangs on the pants’ waistband instead of the belt).
The MTAC holsters come with your choice of plain plastic clips (about half the width of the Crossbreed clip) that can be snapped over the belt from the top like the Crossbreed clips but are much less “tactical” looking. MTAC holsters can also be ordered with a “C” clip which captures only the top and bottom of your belt (a much better alternative to Crossbreed’s “J” clip because the holster is supported by the belt, not the pants waistband), and is relatively unobtrusive. MTAC clips come in a few different colors that are supposed to match various belts/pants, but in fact, other than black, the colors are off from what real-world leather belts really look like.
Both Crossbreed and MTAC holsters can be ordered with their own version of a Velcro clip which go over the pants and allow almost total concealment by simply running the belt (with its own Velcro sewn to the inside) to capture the clips between the belt and the pants.
FIT AND FINISH
Much has been said re the finish on the MTAC being nicer than that of the Crossbreed – another design difference. The outside (the part away from the wearer’s body) of the Crossbreeds is either natural horsehide or black-dyed cowhide and the inside (the side against the wearer’s body) of the Crossbreed is the rough side of the leather. On the MTAC, the front side is nicely finished smooth leather and a majority of the back side is also the smooth finish side of the leather.
OVERALL IMPRESSIONS – WHAT TO CHOOSE (This is the subjective part – what I think)
Making a pick of one over the other is difficult. When I started writing this, I had no bias, but as I began writing, some personal impressions emerged:
The exposed Tee-Nuts on the back side of the MiniTuck and SuperTuck (and Comp-Tac Spartan for that matter) don’t bother me.
I personally find both of these a bit of a pain to put on when my pants are buttoned – belt tightened or not. The lower end of the Kydex body (because it’s “square cut” on the bottom) on the Crossbreed sticks on the top of my waistband, whereas the bottom of the Kydex body on the MTAC is more rounded and almost closed and therefore slides in easier. However, the bottom of the belt clips on the MTAC want to hang up on the top of my waistband. This is improving over time as I get accustomed to them. Removing either is a breeze.
The ability to swap Kydex bodies as on the MTAC & Spartan is clever; however, when I’m getting ready to go somewhere, I just want to grab my stuff and go. So the extra cost of the leather for different guns/holsters is acceptable to me as opposed to having to change out holster bodies.
It has been said that the “general public” is unaware of the significance of the exposed (Crossbreed or other) clips and therefore it won’t be an issue that you can see the clips (and that they have crosses on them) etc. And that’s probably true re the “general public”. I have no problem with the “cross” per se, although it is very distinctive and may advertise to the BG’s that you’re carrying – in fact they scream “tactical carry”. I believe that advertising you’re carrying to a nut tells the nut to take you down first. And while many “nuts” may not know the significance of exposed belt clips (particularly 2 clips), some may – a SuperTuck or MTAC was probably included with the gun they stole. If we were simply concerned with the “general public”, we probably wouldn’t need CCW’s, concealment holsters, etc. But, that not being the case, I think we need every edge we can get and maximum concealment is high on my list. Therefore, the less obvious the belt clips the better.
I don’t believe the Crossbreed “J” clips are worth considering since they hang on the pants waistband instead of the belt.
While the MiniTucks both fit well and flush against my body, the bottom of the rear belt clip on the MTAC sticks out at about a 15 degree angle and prints on the back of my jeans. This is caused by three things: 1) Because of the cant adjustment, the rear belt clip is fastened at the second hole from the top leaving 3 holes at the bottom – almost 2 inches of plastic clip hanging down below the mounting point. 2) the belt clips on the MTAC are fastened to the leather with a thick rubber washer spacing it about a quarter of an inch away from the leather (whereas the rubber spacers between the belt clips and the leather on the Crossbreed holsters are 1/16 of an inch or less, and 3) the leather at the top of the MTAC leather is “sculpted” resulting in no leather between either clip top and the wearer’s body* which causes the wearer’s belt to pull the top of the clips past the leather backing and close to the wearer’s body and thereby causing the bottom of the clip to stick out. The simple fix, for me, is to cut off the bottom unused section of the belt clip (below the 2nd hole from the top) so there is no protrusion to print.
And finally, regarding belt clips, when I would wear these holsters (tucked) with slacks and a dress shirt, I would never use the full clips from Crossbreed and probably not use the MTAC full clips either – I’d use either the MTAC C clips or the V clips (Velcro) from either company. I think the full clips will stand out like rabbit ears on a mouse with khaki slacks.
Its winter now and tuck-ability is not a big issue for me; I can just wear a bulky sweater or sweatshirt outside my pants and the gun “goes away”. But when summer comes, I need to wear slacks with a dress shirt often. I noticed that many owners of “tuckable” holsters say they’ve never used them tucked; and probably for the same reason I didn’t – I thought it was too much hassle. But, in writing this, I thought I should at least try tucking. Okay, it’s a pain. However, I found out, much to my dismay, that I can conceal MUCH better when tucked! The reason is that I can blouse my shirt around the weapon so that no matter what I do, it doesn’t print.
And, speaking of printing, I’ve found that the worse case for printing is a T shirt or loose sweat shirt, fleece shirt, etc., outside the waistband, that hangs or “drapes”, without elastic on the bottom. The reason is that when you bend over or reach forward with the hand on the gun side, the shirt drapes against the gun and almost invariably prints – badly. The BEST case for concealment and no, or minimal, printing is a) wearing a shirt with elastic on the bottom over the weapon, or b) wearing a shirt of any type tucked in between the holster and the pants.
Much has been said about the nicer finish of the MTAC holster, and it does have a nicer looking appearance in my opinion. However, it may also have its downside. Because most of the back of the MTAC is the smooth “finish” side of the leather, I found it tends to slip against my T-shirt or skin and ride down whereas the Crossbreed, having the rough side against the wearer, tends to stay put a little better.
In terms of overall fit and comfort, both are very similar, although I seem to be more aware of the MTAC “being there” (meaning it’s not quite as comfortable) than I am of the Crossbreed.
In summary, it’s a close call between the MTAC and Crossbreed holsters. However, of all the things mentioned above, the difficulty on holstering/re-holstering/drawing, the slight additional “noticeable presence” of the MTAC, and the printing of the mounting clips (although fixable), makes the MTAC close to a deal breaker (but I sure like the looks of it…). So, if I had to choose, I’d choose the Crossbreed MiniTuck (or SuperTuck for larger pistols). I’d also opt for MTAC belt clips (which can be ordered separately from Comp-Tac) for a wider cant angle range (trimmed as noted above) and/or C clips (also trimmed)...with some Velcro clips thrown in for extra conceal-ability.
="MountainCat"The paint job on the belt holders is poor. There are visible runs. They should really be powder coated rather than spray painted.
How old is yours because I believe they are powder coated now and they offer retro fit kits for people with older models.
burns wrote:2. The CB packs slimmer than does the MTAC, but the MTAC has thicker kydex with (I think) adjustable tension. IMO, I like em' slim!
I've watch a few comparison videos trying to decide between them and they all said the MTAC kydex looks thicker but that the top lip is just rolled over but they are the same thickness. But your are right the MTAC does have adjustable tension screw on the CB you need to use heat to "shrink" it to tighten it up.
I looked at all the hybrid holsters out there and decided to make my own. Kydex is really easy to work with and most of the hardwear (belt clips, rivets, tee nuts, etc.) can be found online or at Home Depot. The Kydex and leather I get from knifekits.com. There is a really good tutorial on steyrclub.com. I've made 3 the last one turned out perfect, took me about an hour and a half to make and about $20 in material. I'll try to post a couple of pics later in the week.
It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb
GrayGhost wrote:I looked at all the hybrid holsters out there and decided to make my own. Kydex is really easy to work with and most of the hardwear (belt clips, rivets, tee nuts, etc.) can be found online or at Home Depot. The Kydex and leather I get from knifekits.com. There is a really good tutorial on steyrclub.com. I've made 3 the last one turned out perfect, took me about an hour and a half to make and about $20 in material. I'll try to post a couple of pics later in the week.
Looking forward to the pics...
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
I ordered me the Crossbreed Mini Tuck for my PM9, received it two weeks ago and let me tell you it is the best holster out of the box full that I have acquired. I like this IWB holster so much that I have ordered me the Super Tuck for the XD Sub Compact. This is one holster that after a few days feels as if you’re not even carrying. Went to Wal-Mart this morning and left my wallet a home and then realized I was carrying concealed. For once was glad the wife had her PLASTIC
Dragonfly wrote:I ordered me the Crossbreed Mini Tuck for my PM9, received it two weeks ago and let me tell you it is the best holster out of the box full that I have acquired. I like this IWB holster so much that I have ordered me the Super Tuck for the XD Sub Compact. This is one holster that after a few days feels as if you’re not even carrying. Went to Wal-Mart this morning and left my wallet a home and then realized I was carrying concealed. For once was glad the wife had her PLASTIC
I've had my super tuck for a little over a month now and I love it. I carry most of the time and I can barely tell I have it and it's almost impossible to see I'm carrying.
Nice review rod.I just got my Mini Tuck in the mail today.Still trying to figure where I want to carry it and get it adjusted.
For once was glad the wife had her PLASTIC