I have a few questions...New pistol owner!

[9MMDerringer]

I am former L.E., and I know a little bit about this topic of rights. Police reading you your rights after arrest is from a case named Miranda v. Arizona. You may have heard it called your Miranda Rights. It does state that you have the right to remain silent, and anything you say can and will be used against you in court. If you ask for an attorney, police may not question you "about the offense you have been arrested for, or are being charged with, or investigated in reference to your arrest" until your attorney is present. That being said, the key points here are questions directly related to the offense you were arrested for. Technically people misunderstand that part, and do not understand that police can ask questions about other stuff not directly related to the charge you were arrested for. Now typically that covers things like your name, address, date of birth, and other info that is needed for the reports, but it does not necessarily have to be. Citizens should be on guard (and this comes from someone that was a cop offering the advice), when being questioned. I did NOT advise you to refuse to cooperate, I said be on guard. Use common sense and intelligence. If you want to exercise your right to remain silent, then exercise it. Police will often have a presumption of guilt towards someone that refuses to answer simple average basic questions, for example: How long have you owned this car? Driver answers, "none of your business, I do not have to answer that!" -- You may have been stopped because a car just like yours was stolen from the parking lot 1 mile away, 15 minutes ago. Suggestion is to balance protection of your rights, while also being respectful and cooperative to the extent that you can cooperate without giving up protection of your rights! I recomment everyone read and study, Miranda case, 4th amendment, and 5th amendment.

Cheers,
Tim

[zephyp]

said he was under arrest, but refused to read him his rights

You can be arrested without having your rights read to you.....depends on the situation.

Please explain. I thought you could be detained without that but not "arrested." Wasnt Miranda upheld by SCOTUS?

[WRW]

Police will often have a presumption of guilt towards someone that refuses to answer simple average basic questions, for example: How long have you owned this car? Driver answers, "none of your business, I do not have to answer that!" -- You may have been stopped because a car just like yours was stolen from the parking lot 1 mile away, 15 minutes ago. Suggestion is to balance protection of your rights, while also being respectful and cooperative to the extent that you can cooperate without giving up protection of your rights! I recomment everyone read and study, Miranda case, 4th amendment, and 5th amendment.
Cheers,
Tim

If the car registration and operators license match, why would duration of ownership be questioned? I could see questioning the string trimmer in the back seat if lawn care operations in the area had had a rash of stolen equipment.

I do agree that interactions between law enforcement and the public should be two way streets, but the time of ownership example sounds like a fishing expedition.

[GS78]

pffffft....... .....

[9MMDerringer]

First, in reference to the Miranda question: You only have to be advised of Miranda if the police are going to question you about the offense you are being arrested for. If the police arrest you for an offense that they do not need to question you about, they may never read you your rights, and technically do not have to read Miranda rights, because they do not intend on asking you any questions about the offense.

Next, in reference to the ownership of the car: There are several instances and possibilities where the officer might want to ask that question. For example if the car has temporary registration plates, or you do not have the registration card and the Dispatcher is not getting a return on the tag number in the computer. How about the registration does not match the driver? Bad guys do not volunteer info to the police, so police often need to confirm information during vehicle stops and stops of persons to properly investigate and make sure everything is on the up and up.

[MountainCat]

On the subject of Miranda rights and keeping your yack shut......

I thought that there was a point where if you have been talking, the court can compel you to talk further. Is that true?

In other words, I though that you can't just answer some questions and refuse to answer others. Does that only come into play in court or also while being questioned by police?

I've seen such a situation during Congressional testimony where the witness took the 5th on the most basic questions such as "Are you even here today Mr Jones?". The reasoning was that the witness had to answer all questions that way.

[GS78]

On the subject of Miranda rights and keeping your yack shut......

I thought that there was a point where if you have been talking, the court can compel you to talk further. Is that true?

In other words, I though that you can't just answer some questions and refuse to answer others. Does that only come into play in court or also while being questioned by police?

I've seen such a situation during Congressional testimony where the witness took the 5th on the most basic questions such as "Are you even here today Mr Jones?". The reasoning was that the witness had to answer all questions that way.

Thats what I'm talkin about......I mean if I was talkin, .........but "I ain't talkin".....

[9MMDerringer]

You can shut up at anytime you want to before or during questioning. That is why Miranda states, "If you want a lawyer, one will be provided, and if you want to answer questions now, you can stop and ask for a lawyer anytime during the questioning..."

In reference to the congressional hearings or testimony in court, it is my understanding that someone can invoke their 5th Amendment privilege at anytime, when they feel the answers to the questions or testimony they would provide may incriminate them.

[gunderwood]

I am former L.E., and I know a little bit about this topic of rights. Police reading you your rights after arrest is from a case named Miranda v. Arizona. You may have heard it called your Miranda Rights. It does state that you have the right to remain silent, and anything you say can and will be used against you in court. If you ask for an attorney, police may not question you "about the offense you have been arrested for, or are being charged with, or investigated in reference to your arrest" until your attorney is present. That being said, the key points here are questions directly related to the offense you were arrested for. Technically people misunderstand that part, and do not understand that police can ask questions about other stuff not directly related to the charge you were arrested for. Now typically that covers things like your name, address, date of birth, and other info that is needed for the reports, but it does not necessarily have to be. Citizens should be on guard (and this comes from someone that was a cop offering the advice), when being questioned. I did NOT advise you to refuse to cooperate, I said be on guard. Use common sense and intelligence. If you want to exercise your right to remain silent, then exercise it. Police will often have a presumption of guilt towards someone that refuses to answer simple average basic questions, for example: How long have you owned this car? Driver answers, "none of your business, I do not have to answer that!" -- You may have been stopped because a car just like yours was stolen from the parking lot 1 mile away, 15 minutes ago. Suggestion is to balance protection of your rights, while also being respectful and cooperative to the extent that you can cooperate without giving up protection of your rights! I recomment everyone read and study, Miranda case, 4th amendment, and 5th amendment.

Cheers,
Tim

They did specifically question him about the where he got the firearm, etc. Direct questions about the "offence" without reading him his rights, while he sat in a jail. I do not know a single lawyer that suggests you cooperate with the police once they begin questioning you about anything not directly related to the reason they stopped you. Only police advocate that. Yes, the courts have severely degraded our rights in favor of giving police more power...all part of the police state gig.

I've learned the hard way about police on fishing expeditions too. Again, after being harassed and having my property confiscated for a month, they dropped everything as soon as I was serious about getting a lawyer. Only then did they give me back my lawfully owned property. You sir, may be a service to the community, but I don't know the difference between you and those other cops. You all have badges. So I will cooperate as little as I can legally do because I can't trust you...after all you can lie to me with no consequences.

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/crimin ... stops.html

Edit: The laws are so stacked in the officers favor that it is impossible to help yourself by cooperating. The laws are so lopsided that I can not trust a single thing a officer says any more, because legally they say anything and not be held accountable as to the validity of their statements. How are you suppose to interact with anyone if you can't form some basis for trust? You can't. The sooner you realize this and the sooner you understand that the officer isn't "talking" to you because he likes you or is just curious, the better off you will be. Do the minimum and then shut up. Sure they will harass you and you likely will have your rights violated, but at least you can be confident you will come out ok if you haven't done anything wrong.

[GS78]

word...

[zephyp]

The 5th states ..."nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..." Interpretation under miranda means while in custody, however, anything you say before you are read your rights can be used against you. Link below looks like a decent reference. Note question 4.

How Do I Protect Myself From Having My "Pre-Miranda" Silence Used Against Me?

If you are under investigation for a criminal offense, you can prevent "pre-Miranda" silence from becoming an issue by stating, "My attorney told me never to talk to the police without talking to him first. Do I have to answer your questions?" Once informed that you have the right to remain silent, no negative inference can be drawn from your exercise of that right. There is nothing wrong with making your attorney responsible for your choice to remain silent -- it looks a lot more suspicious if you simply refuse to answer questions than if you present the explanation that your attorney gave you standing advice not to answer questions.

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/crimin ... ights.html

[ProShooter]

said he was under arrest, but refused to read him his rights

You can be arrested without having your rights read to you.....depends on the situation.

Please explain. I thought you could be detained without that but not "arrested." Wasnt Miranda upheld by SCOTUS?

In order for a Miranda warning to be required, there has to be 2 conditions met: custody and interrogation. If I take you into custody (deprive you of your liberty of movement) and I am going to ask you questions about the crime, then I must advise you of your Miranda rights.

But let's say that there is a warrant for your arrest, for Grand Larceny. I can arrest you on that warrant, and not ask you any questions. Its not my case, I'm simply executing an arrest warrant. I do not have to advise you of Miranda. I'm not asking any questions.

Or, I walk up to your car and you are sitting there smoking weed. I know what weed is, what is smells like. I can arrest you for possession of marijuana and not Mirandize you because I dont need to ask you any questions like, where did you buy that weed.

Not reading Miranda is a great tool because most people will start to spill their guts about stuff when the cop isn't even asking a question....and guess what? Anything that you volunteer on your own without me asking a question, is usually good to go in court at your trial and will be used against you.

[zephyp]

Thanks, Jim. That makes sense.