anybody else wondering?

[GS78]

Our President issued his official statement on the earthquake in Haiti less than 30 minutes after it was widely televised..........


It took him 3 and 1/2 days to speak about an attempted terrorist attack on Christmas day on American soil.


I am not comparing the two incidents by severity, and I acknowledge that the earthquake is by far more of a tragedy humanitarilly.

My point is the focus of this President is extremely disturbing to me. In the wake of the biggest disaster to hit in this hemisphere in over 100 years, this President was hunkered down at the whitehouse with approx,20 top democrat leaders in closed door "meetings" to secure his "healthcare" plan. Keep in mind that they assumed this plan would have been a done deal back in August of last year. It has been amazing to me that they have kept the details of this monster government push for control of the american population quiet so long. In a town like D.C. where seafood lasts longer than secrets do, how could this be? I hate to assume things(because it makes an ass out of U and me)(ass-u-me) ..... I am going to assume that this bill has the support of more of the "opposition" than we are being told.....If you think about what we have witnessed in the last year, with all the power grabs from the left, coupled with the secret signings of executive orders, the flat out disrespect from elected leaders in the face of opposition to their plans,even vulgar personal attacks by the democrat leader( saying things like " I can smell them out there" when asked about people coming to the capitol to protest this congress)... people being forcibly removed from TOWN HALL MEETINGS!!! for what offense? ...challenging their elected leaders!.. we are witnessing the suffication of the American experiment. This was never about healthcare. I wonder where it ends? I get the feeling by looking around the country that people are tired. The blood flow is being slowly cut off,unemployment numbers are not being reported accurately, construction unemployment rate is 18%, there are now more people unemployed in this country that there were during the thirties,(taking into account the differences in populations, economy etc..)one of the alinsky techniques was to ensure the majority of the population is so miserable, and mentally tired that they will beg for "change" they will be so distraught over their situation they will beg the government for any change,no matter how foreign or distasteful to them"..... Thats where this is all headed........When the government no longer fears the people.....the people had better fear the government.

[gunderwood]

This was never about healthcare.

Nope. It is never about healthcare or jobs or <insert agenda here>. That is a major theme of this book I started a thread on: http://vagunforum.net/national-discussi ... tml#p29665

I wonder where it ends?

There really isn't anything new under the sun, just the details change. I have been challenging people to start reading some of the older works; like the thread above. Our political leaders on both sides pretend that somehow their plans are new and bold, when in fact, they are just minor tweaks on old tired ideas. To combat this you must become a student of history, economics, law, philosophy, politics, etc. I know I have posted this site before, but it deserves it again. http://www.mises.org

They touch on all of these subjects, but focus on economics. Their central tenet is liberty. They republish a lot of the older works because the enemies of liberty have been confronted before and their ideas shown to be bankrupt. Some of the newer works push the limits of classical liberalism and can be very deep. Some of the contributors are religious, some are very much not.

I personally thing a lot of the problem is because words like liberty, freedom, free market, capitalism, etc. have been abused and twisted. Most Americans are under the impression that we are capitalist, while we are actually more or less merchantalist. http://mises.org/story/155

I get the feeling by looking around the country that people are tired. The blood flow is being slowly cut off,unemployment numbers are not being reported accurately, construction unemployment rate is 18%, there are now more people unemployed in this country that there were during the thirties,(taking into account the differences in populations, economy etc..)one of the alinsky techniques was to ensure the majority of the population is so miserable, and mentally tired that they will beg for "change" they will be so distraught over their situation they will beg the government for any change,no matter how foreign or distasteful to them"..... Thats where this is all headed........When the government no longer fears the people.....the people had better fear the government.

Liberty must be continuous guarded and fought for. The enemies of liberty never tire because every battle they win a compromise from the people, usually under the guise of protection. We will protect you from global warming, insurance companies, banks, credit card companies, terrorists, democrats, republicans, whites, blacks, yourselves, etc., etc...all you have to do is give us the power to do so (or these days they just claim powers they don't have and tell the people to shut up).

I believe in God and am convinced that liberty matters. The Bible says we can only serve on master. Most of the whole protectionist racket (and all of the bankrupt philosophies that flow from it, communism, socialism, etc.) is an attempt to replace God with government.

"25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matthew 6:25-34 King James

Vice today we are told to trust government to provide for us. Think about it... However, this verse doesn't remove man's responsibility either.

Don't get me wrong. Government is a valid institution (one which God actually institutes and bounds), but there are limits. Men must be free so they may serve their Creator first. However, not all free men will, but none can when they serve government first.

[GS78]

Okay, I don't quite follow your insertion of this particular scripture in the discussion.

[ProShooter]

Why do we even need an "official statement" on an event that happened in another country?

Not to belittle the tragedy, but we have hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, etc everywhere. Do we really have to take a position and assert how tragic it is? Don't we already know that it is a sad event? When are we going to start worrying about us, and not everyone else?

I'm reminded of this...

"Nationalism and Americanism"

Speech by Warren G. Harding, Senator from Ohio and Republican candidate for President, 1920


"My countrymen, the pioneers to whom I have alluded, these stalwart makers of America, could have no conception of our present day attainment. Hamilton, who conceived, and Washington, who sponsored, little dreamed of either a development or a solution like ours of today. But they were right in fundamentals. They knew what was faith, and preached security. One may doubt if either of them, if any of the founders, would wish America to hold aloof from the world. But there has come to us lately a new realization of the menace to our America in European entanglements which emphasizes the prudence of Washington, though he could little have dreamed the thought which is in my mind.

When I sat on the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations and listened to American delegations appealing in behalf of kinsman or old home folks across the seas, I caught the aspirations of nationality, and the perfectly natural sympathy among kindred in this republic. But I little realized then how we might rend the concord of American citizenship in our seeking to solve Old World problems. There have come to me, not at all unbecomingly, the expressed anxieties of Americans foreign born who are asking our country’s future attitude on territorial awards in the adjustment of peace. They are Americans all, but they have a proper and a natural interest in the fortunes of kinsfolk and native lands. One cannot blame them. If our land is to settle the envies, rivalries, jealousies, and hatreds of all civilization, these adopted sons of the Republic want the settlement favorable to the land from which they came.

The misfortune is not alone that it rends the concord of nations. The greater pity is that it rends the concord of our citizenship at home. It’s folly to think of blending Greek and Bulgar, Italian and Slovak, or making any of them rejoicingly American, when the land of adoption sits in judgement on the land from which he came. We need to be rescued from divisionary and fruitless pursuit of peace through super government. I do not want Americans of foreign birth making their party alignments on what we mean to do for some nation in the old world. We want them to be Republican because of what we mean to do for the United States of America. Our call is for unison, not rivaling sympathies. Our need is concord, not the antipathies of long inheritance.

Surely no one stops to think where the great world experiment was leading. Frankly, no one could know. We’re only learning now. It would be a sorry day for this republic if we allowed our activities in seeking for peace in the Old World to blind us to the essentials of peace at home. We want a free America again. We want America free at home, and free in the world. We want to silence the outcry of nation against nation, in the fullness of understanding. And we wish to silence the cry of class against class, and stifle the party appeal to class, so that we may ensure tranquility in our own freedom. If I could choose but one, I had rather have industrial and social peace at home, than command the international peace of all the world.

[zephyp]

He did jump out there pretty quick on the quake. I guess it was easier to tear himself away from pelosi than a golf game. Regarding this quake think about whats happened over the last 5-6 years. We've heard more about natural disasters (acts of God), war, poverty, crime, etc than ever before. I think this last quake was the last wake up call before the big things start to happen. I'm going out on a limb and will say that within 12 months we will witness a disaster of Biblical proportion.

[moss20]

He did jump out there pretty quick on the quake. I guess it was easier to tear himself away from pelosi than a golf game. Regarding this quake think about whats happened over the last 5-6 years. We've heard more about natural disasters (acts of God), war, poverty, crime, etc than ever before. I think this last quake was the last wake up call before the big things start to happen. I'm going out on a limb and will say that within 12 months we will witness a disaster of Biblical proportion.

I agree with you DK.

[Vahunter]

I'm going out on a limb and will say that within 12 months we will witness a disaster of Biblical proportion.

Pelosi will be cloned ?

[zephyp]

I'm going out on a limb and will say that within 12 months we will witness a disaster of Biblical proportion.

Pelosi will be cloned ?

Heavens no !!!!!!!! That would indeed be Biblical and only God could save us....

[gunderwood]

Okay, I don't quite follow your insertion of this particular scripture in the discussion.

I was extending your original idea (where does it end?). The problem is that it will end badly if the people are ignorant of their own heritage. The people are easily lead astray if they are also ignorant of how ideas and philosophies have played out historically. E.g. most people assume we have capitalism today, when it is easily demonstrable that we do not if you simple read the early Austrian works (the school of thought is called such because a lot of the early gentlemen who formalized the idea where from Austria). Or they believe in a limited government, free markets, etc, but have no idea why that is more moral or ethical than the alternatives.

After extending your idea, I made a brief, not definitive, point about how many of the ism's fundamentally seek to replace God with government. This is a much deeper argument which I have barely even scratched the surface in this forum. The verse in question was one of many references where the God promises to provide for his people. The problem is that a full study of the Scriptures would be needed before really validating the point...context is very important. To begin such a study I suggest: http://www.americanvision.com/godversussocialism.aspx

That is just a start.

I am guilty of hijacking your thread because I was extending your original thought perhaps too far. I appologize. I still think there is validity in exploring the idea, but probably should have started my own thread.

[gunderwood]

Here is an article (published before my post, but you can take my word or not that I hadn't read it till today) discussing the idea.

http://www.americanvision.org/article/t ... f-slavery/

[GS78]

I'll take your word for it, I don't really care if any of "my" threads is highjacked either.... Its not really mine to begin with, I was just wondering why you used that particular verse...

[zephyp]

Here is an article (published before my post, but you can take my word or not that I hadn't read it till today) discussing the idea.

http://www.americanvision.org/article/t ... f-slavery/

Kinda nails it spot on.

[GS78]

I'll take your word for it, I don't really care if any of "my" threads is highjacked either.... Its not really mine to begin with, I was just wondering why you used that particular verse...

are....'any of my threads ARE......

[gunderwood]

I'll take your word for it, I don't really care if any of "my" threads is highjacked either.... Its not really mine to begin with, I was just wondering why you used that particular verse...

Ah. That verse is one of the more well known that discuss God's promise to provide provision for His people. Certainly, not the only one. A Christian is called to serve God first and trust in Him for provision. The current rash of socialism in this country is an attempt to substitute God's provision with the governments, particularly through theft of your neighbor. MacArthur's commentary has this to say:

Matt. 6:26 "your heavenly Father feeds them."
"Obviously, this in no way advocates a sinful kind of idleness (Prov. 19:15). Birds are not idle either, but God provides them with food to eat."

To be honest, I was about to run out the door and it was the first verse that I thought of concerning God's promise to provide. The fear of uncertainty is driving many people to look to the government for security, which, ultimately, they won't find there.

[GS78]

To be honest, I was about to run out the door and it was the first verse that I thought of concerning God's promise to provide. The fear of uncertainty is driving many people to look to the government for security, which, ultimately, they won't find there.......



or you could have just said that.....

[zephyp]

God will provide for our needs. It may not be the form we want or expect but if we place our trust in Him He will provide. I have come to the point in my life especially considering the world situation that the only thing to do is prostate myself before Him and place my whole life in His hands. IMHO nothing else will work and I dont honestly want anything else. If I understand my Bible correctly things are beginning to wind down and if I hear the trumpet in my lifetime I do not want to be left behind.

[GS78]

God will provide for our needs. It may not be the form we want or expect but if we place our trust in Him He will provide. I have come to the point in my life especially considering the world situation that the only thing to do is prostate myself before Him and place my whole life in His hands. IMHO nothing else will work and I dont honestly want anything else. If I understand my Bible correctly things are beginning to wind down and if I hear the trumpet in my lifetime I do not want to be left behind.

hmm, well if I understand mine, this is just the beginning of sorrows....we got a loooooong way to go...

[zephyp]

Indeed and precisely why I want nothing more than to stand in the shadow of God. Come join me brother.

[GS78]

I am a firm believer, and I am a firm believer in God helps those who help themselves....

[gunderwood]

God will provide for our needs. It may not be the form we want or expect but if we place our trust in Him He will provide. I have come to the point in my life especially considering the world situation that the only thing to do is prostate myself before Him and place my whole life in His hands. IMHO nothing else will work and I dont honestly want anything else. If I understand my Bible correctly things are beginning to wind down and if I hear the trumpet in my lifetime I do not want to be left behind.

hmm, well if I understand mine, this is just the beginning of sorrows....we got a loooooong way to go...

I'm not quite sure I totally understand your comment? Would you care to elaborate?