Patrol Rifle Question

[AgentSmoke]

Hello VGOF.

I feel kind of an outsider here, as I actually reside in Texas. However, a search of the internet looking for forums with actual EDUCATED responses turns up pretty dry...and your forum was one of the most registered, and most discussed, so I just had to try my question here.

I am a "rookie" cop here in Texas, and I'm about to purchase my first patrol rifle, for carry on duty in the car with me. I need help deciding, because as I'm sure you know the options for patrol rifles are overwhelming.

I had narrowed my choices down to 2 types of rifle:

The standard AR setup, and the new SIG556 SWAT rifle.


The main draw to the SIG was the quad rail system up front, and the clean operation of the piston system. This was originally the direction I was leaning.


When I talked to the actual patrol rifle instructor at the academy I attended however, he said there was only one option I needed to look at: The Colt LE6920. I'm not exactly ecstatic towards this rifle though, because of the awkward front grip setup (I was really wanting a quad rail on the front of whichever rifle I got).


So my question for you guys is twofold:

1. If you had a choice between the SIG556 SWAT, or the Cold LE6920, with the intention of carrying it in a patrol environment, which direction would you go?

2. IF you go with the Colt, how hard is it to swap out the front grip to a quad rail?




Sorry for the long post, and the "imposter" status I'm holding....hopefully this can help me out.

[Palladin]

Not an imposter - I'm sure someone qualified will chime in shortly...

[Paliden]

I own a Bushmaster AR15 and a DPMS LR308. I think in your line of work and even my personal use I would use a AR platform and go 308 instead of 223. The good thing about the AR's is you can dress them just about anyway you want. A good source of accs. and info is "BROWNELLS.COM" Both rifles are good that you mention, but stay with a mil. spec. rifle and you will find anything you can imagine to put on it. But above all I would go 308 over 223 without even thinking!!

[Vahunter]

As far as swapping out the hand guards on the Colt it takes maybe all of 30 seconds using a hand guard removel tool. The tool is inexpensive, around $15.00. You can do it without the tool but sometimes it's a pain in the rear.

[AgentSmoke]

If I decide to go with the 308 option, are there any specific rifles you would recommend?

[Paliden]

If I decide to go with the 308 option, are there any specific rifles you would recommend?

What I have is a DPMS LR308, it's more of a sports model. I can't give a certian model right now but if you stay with S&W, Bushmaster, DMPS you can't go wrong or if you know a good gunsmith have him build one to your specs. That's done all the time.
That's the great thing about the AR platform, it's easy to custom make one and not hurt your wallet.
Oh by the way thanks for your service the the comm.

[Paliden]

If I decide to go with the 308 option, are there any specific rifles you would recommend?

Check this site out!!! DPMSINC.COM. You can have one built the way you like, check it out.
http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=18

[GS78]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say as a self professed "rookie" you might want to listen to the advise of your instructor at the academy....just a thought...



you can always get one with the bells and whistles later...

[gfost1]

I am a "rookie" cop here in Texas, and I'm about to purchase my first patrol rifle, for carry on duty in the car with me.

Howdy,

Don't mean to sidetrack the thread, but I have to ask:

Are you digging into you own pocketbook for a duty weapon? Is that a common occurrence in law enforcement?

Regards,

George

[Macguyver]

I think either rifle would serve your purposes. But i would give serious consideration to the .308 round. Its great if your out on a ranch, or in afghanistan or iraq, but in an urban law enforcement environment its just a liability. That round will keep going through three houses. and that extra second you have to take to consider your backdrop could be life and death.

[allingeneral]

A couple of points that I will have to agree with.

1) as a self professed "rookie" you might want to listen to the advise of your instructor at the academy

2) I would give serious consideration to the .308 round. Its great if your out on a ranch, or in afghanistan or iraq, but in an urban law enforcement environment its just a liability. That round will keep going through three houses. and that extra second you have to take to consider your backdrop could be life and death.

Summary: Get the Colt in .223

(I'm by no means qualified to make this statement - I'm just making it based on what I've read in this thread.)

[Paliden]

Don't sell me short. If I'm right he said he was from Texas, he said he was buying his own carry rifle. Now that leads me to believe he is from southern Texas where they are understaffed and under funded. Does not sound like he had much of a police academy to go too or was rushed through. If he is in southern Texas then he is facing the drug cartel which is very heavily armed.
He ani't in NOVA, he's in a whole different world. My prays go with him.

[SgtBill]

Don't sell me short. If I'm right he said he was from Texas, he said he was buying his own carry rifle. Now that leads me to believe he is from southern Texas where they are understaffed and under funded. Does not sound like he had much of a police academy to go too or was rushed through. If he is in southern Texas then he is facing the drug cartel which is very heavily armed.
He ani't in NOVA, he's in a whole different world. My prays go with him.

I must agree with the above statement. The so called over penatration of the .308 only happens when you mostley use ball ammunition as a former sniper and Police weapons Instructor with over 25 year's of Police work under my belt and 22 of them as a SWAT team sniper and unit commander I would go with a .308. Take a look at the Remington Model#25 in .308 I shot one last week and it was great for a semi auto.

P.S. I have both a son and a daughter in law enforcement and would make the same recomendation to them. My son is in Atlantic City with a lot of people and buildings and my daughter is in Egg Harbor city N.J. a small town with a small pop.
Bill

[meadmkr]

I feel kind of an outsider here, as I actually reside in Texas. However, a search of the internet looking for forums with actual EDUCATED responses turns up pretty dry...and your forum was one of the most registered, and most discussed, so I just had to try my question here.

Do yourself a favor and before choosing take some time and write down on paper your 'requirements'. What are the things YOU NEED (vrs want) on a patrol rifle?

1) What situations are you likely to need a patrol rifle over a sidearm in your area? Range? Multiple persons, obstacles, etc.

2) caliber is something of a personal choice and range/situation.
Does your the department prescribe a caliber or ammo load?

I have a Stag model 3 in 5.56 (so I can also shoot .223) as the ammo
is/was cheaper and more available locally than 7.62, 6.5 or 6.8
My next black rifle will be either 6.8 or 7.62

3) Sights? Optics, iron sights, laser, combination?

4) You left or right handed? If a lefty, do you shoot right handed or
prefer to shoot lefty?

5) What accessories do YOU NEED and why?

6) Budget?

Once you can answer those the choices get a little easier to make and you can narrow the field. I almost left the cost/budget off as this can vary. Some dealers discount well for LEOs and some don't. Try to be honest with yourself and that should help you make an informed decision.

Good luck and keep safe out there!

Semper Fi
CW

[Macguyver]

No offense SGTBill, but the OP never said anything about being a swat sniper, thus my comment about the .308. I also said if he was going to be in open terrain then go for it. Even with law enforcement ammo a .308 is a powerful round. But its all situationally dependent. THen again my experience only comes from the army so im biased haha. Hell, if your fighting drug cartels just go straight for the MK19. i know a guy......

[AgentSmoke]

Hehe, the MK19 would be a blast...


WOW what a response to my questions, and I thank you all for the responses.


Its also a pleasure to be in the company of intelligent people for a change...


Yes you were correct in your assumptions...at least about department size and budget. The rifle will be coming out of my own pocket, and I'm currently the only officer with patrol rifle certification...I'm one of the "new breed" if you will.

My department is based in East Texas, with 2 major highways intersecting literally in the middle of town. One of the highways runs parallel to the interstate, and we all know what that means....I am getting K-9 certified and a dog supplied by the end of the month, so I will be targeting the major drug shipments we all KNOW are on my highways. We aren't far from the border, and any major highway running north and south, or east and west, has shipments....our city has highways running both. So naturally, I will be running into runners in my near future...

The department is understaffed to an extent, and I'm the only night patrol officer covering roughly a 20 square mile patch. My engagements could be anywhere from a car chase and ensuing shootout, to (heaven forbid) an active shooter in our high school.

I have tried to think of as many different scenarios that might require the extra firepower of the rifle, and nothing I can think of reaches past 150 yrds. The terrain varies from tree and brush lined county roads, to open pastures off of major highways...but the situations I might need the rifle will all (as far as I can imagine) be within 100 yrds. So, knowing how Mr. Murphy always shows up, I'll stretch the use to an even 200 yrds, JUST IN CASE.


That being said, let me also go into this aspect:
I know the opinion so far expressed on the forum has been SMALL about the .380 being too powerful, but honestly if there is ANY concern about the travel and penetration of the round, however small it is, I must go ahead and pass it up. The last thing I need is a shootout on the side of the highway and a round of mine traveling over an open pasture for a couple of miles and killing something or someone. Not a good day at the office.


I've also noticed that no one has even attempted to suggest the SIG 556, so I'm dropping that one off my list.



Gear I'd need on the rifle:

1. Folding stock for the mount in the car.
2. Holographic sight
3. Good low recoil muzzle break.
4. Quad rail up front to support further expansion and changing job demands (I'm shooting for the tactical unit as soon as I have the experience).


That sadly is really all I NEED. There are a lot of WANTS, but hey, who doesn't splurge on his gun?


Again: thank you for all the opinions, and keep them coming.



PS: Props to all the active and inactive military on the forums. Your service is beyond appreciated.

[AgentSmoke]

I forgot to mention: $1400 or less preferrably...but I could stretch to $1600 if I HAD to...

[Paliden]

I forgot to mention: $1400 or less preferrably...but I could stretch to $1600 if I HAD to...

Don't write off 308 yet. 223 and 308 have kill range to 500 yards. In your case a 308 would be nice in a shoot out where it will go through a car body to get to the BG's. Your BG's will have more than likely a .30 of some type, maybe even an auto!
But if you go with 223 S&W M&P is not a bad rifle or even a Bushmaster

[zephyp]

One point I can make. I would not recommend .223 at all. Get a 5.56. There is a difference between the 2 cartridges although very little. The bottom line is you can't shoot a 5.56 from a .223 chamber (well, you can but with unpredictable results). You can shoot .223 or 5.56 from a 5.56 chamber. Obviously the better choice. That way you dont have to be picky about your ammo and can also use surplus for the range.

Also, I wouldn't get a .308 as a duty weapon for a patrol car. Way overkill unless you plan to shoot coyotes while on break...

[dwhitehorne]

A little late to this post, but I've been carrying a patrol rifle for the past 7 years. I have a personal Sig 556 and love it. I have been using a issued M16A1 at work and have just gotten a LWRC to replace the 39 year old M16.

To the OP's original question, I would go with the AR variant. I love my Sig but no one makes a rifle rack for it and everyone uses and supports the AR carbine for a reason. I took my Sig to my last quarterly qualifications and ran through the qual course with it. The Sig is sweet but the contols of the AR type weapon are second to none.

Colt is a fine choice and the 6920 is the best, but don't limit yourself to Colt. S&W does a lot of LE sales too but they don't have 1/7 barrels. LMT has a nice LEO price too. I would first suggest contacting your academy firearms staff or another larger Texas agency and see what kind of LEO contracts they have for LE pricing. I was under the impession that TCLEOSE has a standard for everything and they may be able to provide you with some ideas or dictate to you requirements to purchase a rifle under a state contract at a contract price.

As for your post on what you need for the rifle. The folding stock is out for the AR and I rarely fold my Sig stock either. What you will need or must have is a good sling, a good weapon light, good magazines and good sights. You mentioned a holographic sight. I have a Eotech issued at work but prefer the Aimpoint. Both are good but the battery issue with the Eotech requires frequent checks and the 8 hour auto shut off is a pain because I work 12 hour shifts. The Eotech is cheaper and I'm sure that is why they are popular with Law Enforcement. As for the flash hider, I get some ideas on what the contract rifles offer and get what comes with them. I have a phantom that came on my LWRC that works fine, but if you can get a LEO price Colt for under 900 just get what ever you want later. As for rails, your wallet is the limit. Troy is nice but YHM is what a lot of LEO's purchase. Rails are on again off again for me my LWRC has rails but non of my personal rifles do anymore.

Read up a lot and buy what you need more than what you can afford. Good luck David