How to fight the latest push for gun control

General discussion - Feel free to discuss anything you want here. Firearm related is preferred, but not required
User avatar
WRW
VGOF Platinum Supporter
VGOF Platinum Supporter
Posts: 2554
Joined: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:21:31
Location: 11 miles from Thornburg

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by WRW »

wittmeba wrote:
Swampman wrote: 2. then because of course will be no reduction in gun deaths they will came after handguns.
I think the key message here is they DO NOT give back the foolish laws and take-aways when they fail. So we lose a little ground then the next "try" we lose a little more. They keep chipping away at the pie and it constantly gets smaller. We need to find a way that when a newly implemented law can be proven to fail to improve safety we get it back before another law can be passed.
Sunset provisions in all laws, not just firearms laws. Every law should have to be voted back into existence every five years. Keep 'em so busy there is little time for screwing up something else.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
User avatar
kelu
VGOF Gold Supporter
VGOF Gold Supporter
Posts: 1533
Joined: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 12:34:51

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by kelu »

Looks like these days we need to make our voices heard more than ever.
What world you want to leave to your children?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party - Mao Tse Tung
User avatar
wittmeba
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 1686
Joined: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:24:12

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by wittmeba »

WRW wrote:Sunset provisions in all laws, not just firearms laws. Every law should have to be voted back into existence every five years. Keep 'em so busy there is little time for screwing up something else.
I fully agree. Every law should have a life/expiration date. At expiration another vote should be held. If it does not pass or doesn't get a vote then it dies a natural death.
A Concealed Weapon Permit is nothing more than a permit to allow a LAC to wear a jacket.
Make America Great Again
M-A-G-A
User avatar
WRW
VGOF Platinum Supporter
VGOF Platinum Supporter
Posts: 2554
Joined: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:21:31
Location: 11 miles from Thornburg

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by WRW »

How did West Virginia cut the ties to Richmond? Did they leave us a template for the procedure? The first gun control measure to cross the Governors desk ought to spark the process.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
User avatar
SHMIV
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 5741
Joined: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 21:15:31
Location: Where ever I go, there I am.

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by SHMIV »

So, you want to cut off NOVA, and become South Virginia?

I am not opposed...

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
"Send lawyers, guns, and money; the $#!t has hit the fan!" - Warren Zevon
User avatar
SHMIV
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 5741
Joined: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 21:15:31
Location: Where ever I go, there I am.

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by SHMIV »

Upon further reflection...

Ok, this is off the top of my head; I don't have time to fact check myself, so I could easily be off base.

-I'm fairly certain that I ran across some language in The US Constitution, that prohibits States from splitting.

-Virginia had already legally seceded from The Union, and was no longer subject to the US Constitution. Not sure what, if anything, the Confederate Constitution said on the matter.

-West Virginia was able to split with Virginia Proper to rejoin The Union, and become its own State, because of the above. If the Confederate Constitution disallowed this, the Confederate States were in no position to enforce it, and The Arrogant Tyrant Lincoln was certainly not going to object to the addition of an allied State.

Again, this is off the top of my head, and I didn't go back to read the relevant documentation or the relevant history.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
"Send lawyers, guns, and money; the $#!t has hit the fan!" - Warren Zevon
User avatar
WRW
VGOF Platinum Supporter
VGOF Platinum Supporter
Posts: 2554
Joined: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:21:31
Location: 11 miles from Thornburg

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by WRW »

It appears, to me, that there is a process...California has started it several times but never carried through. Seems it would have to go through State Government, popular vote, and US Congress at the least. I'm guessing that the hypocrits in Virginia Government would not hear of it.

But the thought still entertains me.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
User avatar
dorminWS
VGOF Platinum Supporter
VGOF Platinum Supporter
Posts: 7163
Joined: Mon, 06 Dec 2010 15:00:41
Location: extreme SW VA

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by dorminWS »

SHMIV wrote:Upon further reflection...

Ok, this is off the top of my head; I don't have time to fact check myself, so I could easily be off base.

-I'm fairly certain that I ran across some language in The US Constitution, that prohibits States from splitting.

-Virginia had already legally seceded from The Union, and was no longer subject to the US Constitution. Not sure what, if anything, the Confederate Constitution said on the matter.

-West Virginia was able to split with Virginia Proper to rejoin The Union, and become its own State, because of the above. If the Confederate Constitution disallowed this, the Confederate States were in no position to enforce it, and The Arrogant Tyrant Lincoln was certainly not going to object to the addition of an allied State.

Again, this is off the top of my head, and I didn't go back to read the relevant documentation or the relevant history.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well, it seems to me that since the Federal Government took the position that Virginia wasn't allowed to secede, then according to them it was still subject to the US Constitution. And those same feds then sanctioned the split off of part of Virginia to become WV, so arguably there is precedent. But there is also the issue that Virginia was at the time in rebellion against the union, so the circumstances are not exactly the same as when the federal government sanctioned the partition of a state.

Interesting issue.
"The Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference." -Thomas Jefferson
Gun-crazy? Me? I'd say the gun-crazy ones are the ones that don’t HAVE one.
User avatar
SHMIV
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 5741
Joined: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 21:15:31
Location: Where ever I go, there I am.

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by SHMIV »

I was mistaken. In my defense, when I ran across the part of the Constitution that discussed the formation of States, and specifically the Splitting of States, I was looking for something else, that was more pressing at the time.

Anyway, here's what the US Constitution says on the matter:

************************************

Article IV

Section 3

1: New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

*****************************************

So, basically:

Step 1: Define new borders

Step 2: Obtain permission from the General Assembly and State Senate

Step 3: Obtain permission from both Houses of Congress

I haven't studied the separation of West Virginia. But, I doubt that they took those steps; I think that they just did it, and a meaningful objection, if one existed, just wasn't realistic under the given circumstances.

On the other hand, maybe they did go by the book. No clue.

Either way, West Virginia probably isn't the proper model.

And, I doubt that the State Legislature would approve this, as the notion is a direct refutation of their policies.

I imagine that The State of Jefferson, out in California (and, also, a small part of Oregon) has been put on hold, for precisely the same reason.

Probably easier to just heat up the tar, and start plucking chickens.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
"Send lawyers, guns, and money; the $#!t has hit the fan!" - Warren Zevon
User avatar
WRW
VGOF Platinum Supporter
VGOF Platinum Supporter
Posts: 2554
Joined: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:21:31
Location: 11 miles from Thornburg

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by WRW »

I've been called a fig peeler, but never a chicken plucker.

Whether it would work or not, it may provide some distraction at a critical time.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
User avatar
Viper21
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 15:55:40
Location: Rockbridge County

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by Viper21 »

This is how they got it through, kinda.

The North Western parts of Virginia were not as thrilled about secession as the rest of Virginia. Early on, Yankees occupied NW Virginia. A political movement was started to overturn secession. Realizing it was nearly impossible, delegates were selected and had a meeting in Wheeling, where they elected a new Governor & delegates. They were called the, "Restored Government" of Virginia, & appealed to the Feds to be seated in Congress. Lincoln obviously approved. Once recognized, they started the process of separating & forming their own state.

The former government of Virginia (currently in Rebellion), wasn't recognized. So when the "restored government of VA" applied, they were recognized as having the authority to do so. They were officially entered into the Union in 1863 as West Virginia.

The whole deal was pretty shady. The rest of Virginia had no say in the matter. It was pretty underhanded in my opinion, & couldn't have happened without Lincoln's support. It would never have been possible without the War.

Would be very difficult to make happen today. I wish it was possible though. I'd want to stay as Virginia. Make NoVA offical. Call them Northern Virginia. That's what they are in more ways than one.
User avatar
Ironbear
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 467
Joined: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 12:58:52

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by Ironbear »

Viper21 wrote:I'd want to stay as Virginia. Make NoVA offical. Call them Northern Virginia. That's what they are in more ways than one.
Why call it "North Virginia" when you could call it "South Maryland"?
My grandfather said, "Always use your head!".
I told him, "I want to pound nails!"
He said, "Best use a hammer instead."
User avatar
Swampman
VGOF Gold Supporter
VGOF Gold Supporter
Posts: 3011
Joined: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:28:22
Location: Warren County

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by Swampman »

Ironbear wrote:
Viper21 wrote:I'd want to stay as Virginia. Make NoVA offical. Call them Northern Virginia. That's what they are in more ways than one.
Why call it "North Virginia" when you could call it "South Maryland"?
Or west DC? This would be fun - give NOVA to DC! Then the only representation they'd have in Congress would be Norton! They'd be begging to come back to VA! :hysterical:
Progressives/Liberals - Promoting tyranny and a defenseless people since 1913.
User avatar
domin8ss
Marksman
Marksman
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 03:26:00

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by domin8ss »

What's the point? As populations grow the constitutional violations will too. You can build a wall around the new state due to the COTUS. The problem doesn't actually get resolved. You're just kicking the can down down the road to future generations.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
User avatar
WRW
VGOF Platinum Supporter
VGOF Platinum Supporter
Posts: 2554
Joined: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:21:31
Location: 11 miles from Thornburg

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by WRW »

domin8ss wrote:What's the point? As populations grow the constitutional violations will too. You can build a wall around the new state due to the COTUS. The problem doesn't actually get resolved. You're just kicking the can down down the road to future generations.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
I guess you could say that the point is to provide relief for the law abiding that are about to have their basic rights severely curtailed while awaiting clarification of the law through court proceedings.

BTW, there's a name for an exodus of Virginians. "Vexit".

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
User avatar
kelu
VGOF Gold Supporter
VGOF Gold Supporter
Posts: 1533
Joined: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 12:34:51

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by kelu »

We will have this secession discussion more and more.
It fits in the global pattern.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party - Mao Tse Tung
User avatar
domin8ss
Marksman
Marksman
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 03:26:00

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by domin8ss »

WRW wrote:
domin8ss wrote:What's the point? As populations grow the constitutional violations will too. You can build a wall around the new state due to the COTUS. The problem doesn't actually get resolved. You're just kicking the can down down the road to future generations.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
I guess you could say that the point is to provide relief for the law abiding that are about to have their basic rights severely curtailed while awaiting clarification of the law through court proceedings.

BTW, there's a name for an exodus of Virginians. "Vexit".

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
Why not just get up and get your hands dirty? Hard work yields lasting results.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
User avatar
WRW
VGOF Platinum Supporter
VGOF Platinum Supporter
Posts: 2554
Joined: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:21:31
Location: 11 miles from Thornburg

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by WRW »

I agree that hard work yields results and I applaud the attitude.
I would not dare, however, to allow myself to consider any results to be "lasting." Consider the "one gun a month" law. At first there was no such thing. Then, New York complained and we wound up with "one gun a month". Several years later that law was repealed. Now we are about to see a revival of that law (because a New Yorker bought our election).
Liberty does, indeed, require eternal vigilance.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
User avatar
skeeterss00
Sighting In
Sighting In
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri, 27 Jul 2018 14:31:27

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by skeeterss00 »

truly thinking of vexit.........just need to find a place and job
User avatar
Ironbear
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 467
Joined: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 12:58:52

Re: How to fight the latest push for gun control

Post by Ironbear »

skeeterss00 wrote:truly thinking of vexit.........just need to find a place and job
A vexing problem.....
My grandfather said, "Always use your head!".
I told him, "I want to pound nails!"
He said, "Best use a hammer instead."
Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”