Driver's licenses and buying a gun in VA

[M1A4ME]

I was shopping at a large outdoor activities type store the other day and I saw a good deal on a handgun. I asked to see it, looked it over, told the guy behind the counter I'd like to buy it. He said great and we went to the office to start filling out the paperwork.

When I pulled my driver's license from my wallet it hung on the sleeve I keep it in and I found a small crack down the side near the bottom corner. The guy from the store looked at it and said I could not use the driver's license for an ID to prove VA residency because it was damaged/mutilated.

He could not accept my lifetime fishing license or my concealed carry permit as they do not have pictures on them even though they are issues by the state of VA and the county of Chesterfield in VA.

He could not accept my Costco Visa card (with a picture) because it is not issued by the state of VA. I put the pistol on lay away (1/4 of the cost of the gun). He could not accept my voter registration card (no picture, again).

He told me I could drive up to the DMV and pay a fee and they would give me a piece of paper I could use (curious about that since he said he had to have a picture ID and there won't be a picture on a piece of paper????)

I went to the DMV on Brook Rd. and it was backed up around the inside of the building with people just waiting to get their number to sit and wait to be called.

I went home and tried to get a replacement license on line ($19 vs. $20) but could not (no explanation at the time). The message said I had to go to a "customer service center". I went to the one on Rt. 10 the next morning, paid $20 to get a replacement license (it was only 4.5 years old and still good till the middle of 2020 but the flimsy material didn't last.)

I asked if I could laminate the new license when I got it in the mail and was told that was not allowed. I asked them what I could do to make the flimsy/cheap license last longer and was told they were aware of the problem, they were sorry, they knew of nothing to do to keep them from cracking.

I took my temporary paper license (to use till the replacement comes in the mail) and headed back to the store. Different guy, different day, and he would not sell me the gun because the paper copy was dated that day and I had to have a license that showed I'd been a resident of VA for more than 30 days.

I told him the damaged license had a date of issue that was over 4 years old and he told me he could not accept that date because the license was damaged. I never got around to asking how he could accept the temporary license (if I kept it for more than 30 days) since it didn't have a picture on it. He was very apologetic but once again I left the store with no pistol and no good feeling that the store employees really knew what they were doing (after getting two different messages from two different people.)

I should get my replacement license in a few days. But I wonder if it will have a current date on it (the day I paid $20 to replace a defective design/manufactured piece of plastic) or the date of the original license (since this is a replacement, not a renewal). If it has a current date on it I still cannot buy/pick up the pistol till more than 30 days after that date (two days ago).

Their policy is 60 days for layaways so the gun should still be there, either way.

Just a warning to folks in VA. Keep an eye on that cheap little piece of plastic. If it has any damage to it (wear and tear even) you cannot use it to buy a gun in this state.

[Reverenddel]

I think it depends on the clerk, and if they're that much of a douchbag that a small bend, or something of that nature is a "Damage/Mutiliated" id, then I would go somewhere else.

[WRW]

Was all the relevant information still readable? If so, I would call it worn, not damaged, ask to speak to a supervisor, and make my best case. Failing that would put a bar on any future purchases from that establishment. What Reverenddel said.

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[M1A4ME]

It has a crack in it. Probably an inch now that I've had it in/out of the sleeve in the wallet several times now showing it to people.

The guy on the second attempt left to go speak to his supervisor and came back and said that his boss told him they couldn't sell me the gun.

I've put it on layaway. The price was pretty darned good, $462 for a pistol with a MSRP of $581. Sometimes you go months without seeing them in stock (made overseas). Hell, it's a CZ 75 Compact. Not really rare, just not common and way cheaper than I usually see them.

I just wanted to let folks know to take a look at the cheap piece of plastic the state sells us now for identification purposes and to let folks know once that cheap piece of plastic begins to crack/split it's going to cost you $20 to replace it and you can't use it for much of anything till you get that replacement.

It's just kind of Catch 22 like. I have to have a state issued picture ID to buy a gun. Yes, all the data on the card and the picture are perfect. The split/crack is down on the bottom corner. No, I can't use it as ID to buy the pistol. No, I can't use the paper temporary license sold to me by the DMV to buy the pistol because the issue date is less than 30 days old. No, they can't/won't use the 4&1/2 year old date on the drivers license because the corner has a crack in it. It's just one of those, "Really?? Really?? You're kidding, right?? You're not kidding??? You're serious. You won't believe I've been in the state 31 years because the temporary license is only 2 days old and you won't use the license because of the crack."" Catch 22. Ever see the movie Idiocracy?

We'll see next week when the replacement comes in the mail.

Oh, while we're on the subject of driver's licenses did you know you cannot pick up your license at the DMV anymore? It MUST be mailed to your residence. Did you hear about the lady that moved from just north of Richmond to west of Richmond when her husband passed away last winter. She filled out a change of address form for the Post Office and she went to the DMV to get a new license to show her new address. She didn't get her new license in the mail. The DMV said they mailed it but it kept coming back as undeliverable. They mailed it again and it was returned again. She went to the Post Office and didn't get anywhere with them. I think the DMV mailed it out and got it returned 6 times and told the old lady they could not just hand her the license she'd paid for, they had to mail it to her residence and it was the PO that was causing the problem.

She finally went to Channel 12 and when their crew walked into the PO to talk to someone in charge things got straightened out real quick and the old lady got her driver's license in just a few days.

We're not that far from falling off the edge.

[WRW]

Yeah, I saw Idiocracy and I read Catch-22. Despite the cheap plastic, I place blame for your dilemma at the store threshold. If there is no alteration of information and it is not damaged to the point of obscuring that information...in other words, if the DMV used it for ID to issue the temporary license, then it is still a legal document/identification.

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[SHMIV]

When I got my first DL, I could have swapped photos in it, if I was careful about peeling the laminate and replacing it. Not that it would have served any purpose for me, but it could still be done.

I suppose that this whole "damaged/mutilated" thing is a holdover from easily manipulated ID's. The new ID's could possibly be manipulated, too, perhaps, but it would be far more difficult. Anyone going through all that trouble will be more inclined to find alternative firearm sources.

Smaller local dealers are likely going to possess greater discretionary skills. Larger outdoor stores (Dicks, Cabelas, etc.) don't necessarily hire the best and the brightest of folks.

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[ShotgunBlast]

I don't think it's a best and brightest thing, but more of a liability issue.

When any shop is in a position where they're either going to potentially make you upset or potentially make the federal government upset, you're always going to get the short end of the stick. Any manager knows that ATF looks for any reason to hassle anyone so it's simply not worth the sale for them if it means there's even a slightest chance they might get hammered on their next audit.

It sucks, but any time you interact with any level of government or work with a business that interacts with any level of government, it's always so much more difficult than it should be.

[wittmeba]

^^^ Most likely.

Anytime you have had difficulty with a clerk you can always request input from a manager. Sometimes clerks are given specific standards and they don't know enough how/when they can trust their own instincts. Tell them you understand but would like to speak with a manager and if they support the clerk you know where it is coming from.

With all the crap going on these days I'd be cautious too.

[M1A4ME]

Well, the replacement came in the mail. It has an issue date of 9/29/16 on it, the day I paid for another defectively made license to replace the first one.

I may have to wait till the end of October to pick up that pistol. Good thing it's not an immediate need for self defense.

[snatale42]

Wouldn't have given them my money, even if I had to pay more money somewhere else and I'd let them know that. That's the same powertrip BS that bartenders sometimes pull when they get an expired license for an ID. Like the license expiring somehow changes your birthdate.

[JoseVazquez76]

A broken/cracked ID/Drivers License is not a Valid ID. There is no VA Title Code for it that i know of, but places like Bars and other places that serve Alcohol can refuse to sell to you. Go to an ABC Store with a broken ID and see what happens.

We do not accept broken ID's as a from of proper identification when we encounter people for what ever reasons like Barring from Property to Court Summons.

On another note a lot of Business insurance companies are requiring places that serve Alcohol to be TIPS certified, part of that training requires those places not to accept Damage/Mutilated ID's.

Just think of the legal ramifications if someone was allowed to buy a Firearm with a broken ID and did something really stupid, then the victims family turned around and sued the place that sold it cause of the broken ID.

And before anybody on here says what does Alcohol sales and Firearms sales have to do with a broken ID ?

Well remember both are regulated by the ATF.

[WRW]

How do you prove a license was "broken" at the time of the sale unless it is photographed? I haven't been in a bar lately, is that the procedure?

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[JoseVazquez76]

How do you prove a license was "broken" at the time of the sale unless it is photographed? I haven't been in a bar lately, is that the procedure?

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This is why i ask for the ID to be taken out of the wallet, once it is handed to me, i can determine the texture of the ID. From that point you can tell if its in more than once piece. Regardless of the location of broken ID it will still be invalid, also an expired Drivers Lic is invalid.

I bought two Firearms last month, both times my ID were Photo copied, if the counter person can not tell that the ID is not valid by that point then the blame can go on them as well.

The same applies for a Bar, now are they actually doing it when they are suppose to ? i think it depends from place to place. I know VA is covered by Dram Law, but i am pretty sure that invalid ID's do not fall under Dram Laws which means A Bar can be sued if someone left that place drunk and killed someone because they were allowed to drink with a broken (invalid ID).

[WRW]

Blame for incorrectly accepting an intentional deception? We have sunk that far? And you see no problem with that?

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[JoseVazquez76]

Blame for incorrectly accepting an intentional deception? We have sunk that far? And you see no problem with that?

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Not all of it is intentional, a lot of people just don't know what a valid ID really is, including people on this Forum. I do personally have a problem with that, this why i must make sure certain standards are met before i even accept an ID as Valid.

As far as incorrectly and Intentional deception goes, staff should be better trained on those matters. The truth is in the eyes of the beholder.

As far as the OP was saying, that Store was right not to accept the ID.

[WRW]

If that is the way it is, then somebody is fixated on form, not function.

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