advice on carry gun on farm

[graybeard321]

My wife's bird feeders were destroyed by a black bear this weekend. Have pic's from trail cam but can not get them to post to the board. Currently I carry judge loaded with 410 for snakes and 45 LC for foxes and other small varmits. Don't want to carry my 41 or 44 mag around because of weight would a 40 cal do the job or should I carry my 45. I like larger mag on 40 cal but not sure it is enough gun,

[Reverenddel]

HSM Bear Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) +P 325 Grain Lead Wide Flat Nose Gas Check.

They built a round just for your Judge.

PLUS!

Brenneke USA Magnum Ammunition 410 Bore 3" 1/4 oz Silver Rifled Slug

If you have the 3" inch chamber... that's equal to getting hit with a HOT load as well.

[Snakester]

I sometimes carry my Judge around my property in Dinwiddie . I prefer my Bond Arms Snake Slayer IV because it's lighter and more comfortable. Both are .410 /45LC . I have all kinds of loads in both calibers . I shoot mostly 3" shot shells for snakes , but 2 1/2" shells work equally as well. As of now we haven't seen any Bears , but we do have Coyotes ,Bob Cats , fox and many Racoons . For these I like my .17 or .22mag. rifle . I also like your choice of the .40 cal. .....One of my favorite flavors .... I just ordered a RIA 1911 .40 cal. And can't wait to get it . Rev talked about the .410 slug ...I have shot many slugs in my Judge , my Bond Derringer and several long guns and my wife has a Rossi Circuit Judge and I can say , there are some great and very HOT .410 Slugs.

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[SHMIV]

Semi-related question: Practically speaking, what would the difference between using a .410 slug and a .45lc round be? I assume that they are both a chunk of lead, similar in size. Is there an advantage the one over the other?

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[MarcSpaz]

Bad news... no handgun will drop a bear with 1 or 2 shots. Not even a .50 S&W.

Me and a buddy where camping with our families in the Blue Ridge Mountains. A bear came into the clearing and started running at us. My friend drew his G22 and shot the bear 13 times before the bear hit the ground. Had to put 2 in its head to finish putting it down... the G22 is a .40 S&W.

A pistol would be very very last choice for bear defense. If you don't want to carry a rifle, at least carry something with lots of energy, large diameter, and an extended mag (like 20 or 30 rounds).

I would really recommend you carry a semi-auto .308 Win or 30-06 if you are walking the property and you expect to see bears. More so the .308 Win, as they can typically hold more rounds in a semi-auto format (i.e. SR25/AR10) than a 30-06 semi-auto (i.e. M1 Garand).

[Swampman]

Interesting, what Marc said. I've always heard a .45 will stop a Black Bear, but it'll take something along the lines of a .458 or .50 to stop a larger bear. Never had to put it to the test, and hope I never have to. Seems to me that self-defense rounds in .45 would be a better choice than standard slugs.

[Snakester]

I have to say I agree with Marc about the pistol for Bear hunting . Do you have a lot of bears graybeard ? I hunted Bath County for years and saw bears every year . I only have killed one in '79...30.06 @ 55 yards . One shot and he never new what hit him. I would not have wanted anything less ! I think if I lived where Bears were seen all the time I would get a #6 Steel Jaw Trap ! Every once and a while a bear is seen in our area ...I do hope to see one someday.

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[M1A4ME]

Bullet placement is important.

If weight is a concern I believe a rifle weighs more than a handgun.

I've never shot a black bear but a .308 or 30.06 will get it done - if you put the bullet in the right spot.

I remember an article Bob Milek wrote in Guns & Ammo magazine years ago about an old buddy of his dad's. Bob took the horses to town for supplies and when he came back the old guy was skinning out a grizzly bear. The old guy told him he was splitting firewood and when he carried an armload to the cabin he saw a big bear sniffing around his axe/firewood pile - and remembered he'd leaned his rifle up against a tree by the chopping block.

The bear just wouldn't leave so he grabbed his small game rifle out of the cabin (.22 rim fire) and carefully walked up behind the bear and shot him right behind the ear. The bear went down and didn't get up. Bullet placement and a pair of BIG ONES (to sneak up on a grizzly bear with a .22 rim fire).

With bears you'll need that combination of penetration and bullet placement (and possibly enough distance for the bear to die before it gets to you).

Oh, and being cool under pressure, to make that shot.

If all I had was the .45 Colt revolver (big one like a Ruger or S&W) then I'd want a big lead semi wadcutter over a healthy load of slow burning powder that would give higher velocity (penetration again).

[jdonovan]

Don't want to carry my 41 or 44 mag around because of weight ...

If you don't want to bring enough gun, make sure you have the front sight removed on what ever you do decide to carry as it will hurt a lot less when the bear takes it from you and shoves it up your...

if you want to carry something lighter than a revolver, in the semi-auto, my choice would be a 10mm glock 20, with some of buffalo bore, or underwood hard cast slugs. That will get you into the 44 mag neighborhood with regard to power levels, and the hard cast non-expanding slug will help the penetration to get to the important parts.

If you've got a bear that has associated the house with a meal, then you need to make a good effort to keep the outside of the house free of bear snacks for a while so he stops coming back to look for food. Bird feeders, trash, grease etc... keep it all indoors.

[SHMIV]

It occurs to me that bears in Virginia are not known for their aggression. At least, that's what I've always heard. The only first hand encounter, that I've been told about, in regard to bear in Virginia, was a guy who was awaked by noise on his porch in the middle of the night. His reaction was to grab the closest thing, which was a broom, and beat the bear with it. The bear, sensing that his presence was unwelcome, left in a speedy fashion.

I highly doubt that you'll encounter the bear while you're walking about the property, doing things. Unless you really want to say that you've killed a bear, I'd focus more on bear deterrent. I hear that bear meat, while edible, is not the tastiest or tenderest of meats, and I personally am disinclined to want to fool with a carcass the size of a Volkswagen.

A little Googling on bear deterrent methods led me to this site:

http://www.bearsmart.com/live/bear-deterrents/

Although, you may wish to dig a little deeper. They suggest chasing bears away by throwing golf ball sized rocks at it, or chasing the bear up a tree and whacking the base of the tree with a baseball bat. Yeah, those creatures may be naturally timid around people, but antagonizing a massive beast, which possesses enormous pointy teeth and giant knife like claws, sounds like a less than brilliant scheme, to me.

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[dorminWS]

We have quite a few black bears around here in the last 20-30 years. One is seen in town every now and then.

My son occasionally hangs with a crowd that sort of specializes in bear hunting. At one point, he even had an old pickup set up specifically and exclusively for hunting bear. These guys (most of whom lived around the Bedford area) kept bear dogs, hunted all the eastern Virginia counties that allowed bear to be taken, did a lot in Craven County, NC, and even made a trip to Canada every year.

They all carried single-shot pistols chambered for rifle ammo like .308, .444, and 45/70; but that was a “last resort” weapon. Son had a Thompson Contender in .308. They carried high powered rifles as a primary weapon.

But a local game warden advised the same son that to repel a bear that was getting into his garbage at his house, he should shoot him in the rump with #6 shot. Seemed like bad advice to me.

[Reverenddel]

This if you have to carry a rifle

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigbore/1895.asp

[dorminWS]

It occurs to me that my .50 Beowulf might make a middlin' good b'ar gun. I'm told the ballistics approximate the .45/70, and you'd have a .50 caliber slug in a fairly short-barreled semiauto with a 10-shot mag. A quick check on the Midway website reveals a choice of 385 Grain Millennium Solid Brass Hollow Point, 400 Grain Hawk Jacketed Flat Point, or 350 Grain Hornady XTP Jacketed Hollow Point. So if I ever decided to break my rule agin' hunting anything that might try to eat me, I'd be set.

Matter of fact, I've read somewhere that the hunting guides in the Rockies carry the .50 Beowulf in case they get jumped by a grizzly while retrieving an elk carcass from a long shot..

[jdonovan]

better than any pistol you'll likely bring, but I'm really not a fan of the 50 Beowulf due to low sectional density and the general lack of penetration for the energy level of the projectile. A fine tool for thiner skinned, non-heavy boned animals.. and black bear certainly isn't a very heavy boned animal. but if I'm expecting contact with something more dangerous, I want to stack the deck to my advantage.

[dorminWS]

better than any pistol you'll likely bring, but I'm really not a fan of the 50 Beowulf due to low sectional density and the general lack of penetration for the energy level of the projectile. A fine tool for thiner skinned, non-heavy boned animals.. and black bear certainly isn't a very heavy boned animal. but if I'm expecting contact with something more dangerous, I want to stack the deck to my advantage.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Agreed, but then we don't see many grizzlies in these parts.

[MarcSpaz]

That's what I was thinking. But... the bear my buddy dropped at our camp was weighed at a touch over 230 lbs and it still took 15 shots to kill it. I can't imagine what it would take to drop a brown bear at 1400 lbs.

[Reverenddel]

How about a bazooka? Fer the love of Gawd... You start shooting, and things will either IMPROVE, or go decidely DOWN HILL!

[MarcSpaz]

They are not a good choice for 15 yards or less. Just sayin' LoL

[graybeard321]

decided to stay with judge. Based on all your comments I decided no handgun would really do the job. On the plus side I did shoot a cooperhead snake on way up to change chips in trail cam this morning.

[Snakester]

I shot my Judge today , about 300 rds. Some 45 Colt and 2 1/2" OO Buckshot. I have to say it is pretty accurate shooting the Colt .....Had several pretty tight 5 Rd. Patterns. My buddy was shooting his new Ruger 1911 .45 ....What a nice pistol....and wasn't much more accurate that the Judge . Your Judge seems to be a great choice to carry around your property .

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