Virginia to end CCW reciprocity with 24 states

[smltooner]

And how long before the states that already dropped us, restore our carry rights in their states? Haven't heard a peep about that yet, and several of those state dropped us right then.

Casey

I am curious about this too.

[Quigley]

My questions are:
Is the VASP supposed or required to charge for this service? Or is the law to be written such that it will be a free service?
Also, will the information on the gun transaction be retained in some sort of database?

Both very good questions


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[Viper21]

And how long before the states that already dropped us, restore our carry rights in their states? Haven't heard a peep about that yet, and several of those state dropped us right then.

Casey

Have they actually already dropped us...? I believe the "drop" of the other states wasn't to take effect until Feb 1st. Which, I assume now, is NOT going to happen...??!?

[wittmeba]

From the VCDL website:

BREAKING NEWS: *** February 1 cutoff date for dropping recognition of 25 states has been extended to March 1 ***

THE “DEAL”

As you've undoubtedly heard from the media, there is a package deal in the works between Governor McAuliffe and the Republicans in the General Assembly dealing with 1) concealed handgun permit (CHP) reciprocity, 2) voluntary background checks at gunshows, and 3) those subject to a permanent domestic violence protection order.

To many CHP holders, CHP reciprocity is a HUGE deal, especially if they travel out-of-state regularly and want to be able to carry discretely. For example, there is no solution to carrying in South Carolina if we don’t have an agreement between our two states.

There is a lot of misinformation from the media and elsewhere and a lot of people are coming to the wrong conclusions about what the deal does and doesn’t do. Rumors are flying that gun owners only get back the reciprocity that was taken away by Herring and the State Police - that is FALSE. We have gained important ground!

THE DEAL IS STILL IN THE WORKS. Things could still go south as the key bills that make up the deal work their way through the legislature and onto the Governor’s desk. SO, FOR NOW, NOTHING HAS CHANGED. THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE GUARANTEE THIS WILL BECOME LAW, BUT A REASONABLY GOOD CHANCE IT WILL. If it fails, we may not be able to fix the reciprocity situation for another two-long-years.

VCDL has been privy to the deal for several days, as was a national group. VCDL monitored progress of this potentially groundbreaking advancement of our liberty from its genesis, and provided counsel and discussion points during its evolution.

The final product was given the nod by VCDL, however we will be watching like a hawk for any changes that negatively affect gun owners.

IMPORTANT DETAILS ON THE “DEAL”

There are three components that make up the deal, each component represented by matching bills in the House and in the Senate.

#1 - Reciprocity details - gun owners gain ground!

* Virginia will honor the carry permits from ALL states! This is considerably better than current law and something VCDL has been trying to get for at least seven years now.

* Because Virginia will honor all other states, Virginia CHPs will be recognized by all the states we have lost AND we will gain some new states: New Hampshire, Georgia, and Colorado!

* The State Police and the Attorney General will have NO say in the new law. If another state requires a formal agreement to honor Virginia CHPs, the new law requires the Attorney General to enter into any such agreement. If he fails to do this, item #3, below, does not go into effect.

* One other change on the reciprocity law: If your Virginia CHP is revoked for cause, you won’t be able to carry on a non-resident permit from another state. Not a deal breaker.

NOTE: Just because we are honoring all other states, doesn’t mean we can carry in all those states. Someone from New York will be able to carry here, but we won’t be able to carry in New York unless New York is willing to enter into a reciprocal agreement with Virginia, for example.

As more and more states start honoring out-of-state permits, the prospects of our permit being honored by even more states down the road is bright!

#2 - Voluntary gun show background checks

* Background checks for a private sale are COMPLETELY voluntary.

* The State Police shall be at every gun show in Virginia, by law. (Some gun owners were thinking this was some kind of a trick - that if the State Police don’t show up, the gun show would be cancelled. This should put that worry to rest.)

* The gun show promoter shall notify the State Police of the location and times of the gun show at least 30 days in advance, shall provide a free location for the police to set up, and shall have signs letting attendees know of the voluntary background checks at the State Police booth. (I checked with one of Virginia’s largest gun show promoters on this to see if any of it was objectionable and was told, “no.”)

* The State Police may charge a reasonable fee. (If they charge more than you want to pay, you can just walk away and do the transaction without the background check.)

* NO information on the make, model, or serial number of the gun being sold will be provided to the State Police - i.e. no federal Form 4473! The purchaser will have to fill out the Virginia form, which asks a few questions and has the buyer's name, address, and signature. (If you don’t want to fill out that form, you can just walk away and do the transaction without the background check.)

* There is a carrot: if a background check is run, the seller receives some special legal protections that are currently not available for private sales. If a background check is not run, you don’t have any more or any less legal protections than under current law.

Yes, down the road inevitably there will be some bills introduced that attempt to make the background check mandatory. We get bills on mandatory background checks for private sales every year. We will have to fight and defeat those bills in the future, just as we fight and defeat similar bills today.

For those gun owners who would feel safer selling a gun to someone who has had a background check, this provides a new option in addition to the current option of either asking if the person has a CHP or going through the more laborious and expensive route of letting an FFL do the transfer. It also has no effect on private sales conducted anywhere outside of gun shows, where this voluntary option is not provided.

#3 - Persons subject to a PERMANENT domestic violence protection order cannot possess firearms until the order expires

* The ONLY permanent protection order this restriction applies to is one for domestic violence and NOTHING else.

* The subject of the protection order must have had his day in court along with any legal counsel. Temporary protection orders do NOT affect possession of firearms.

* If the judge, after hearing the defense, decides to issue a permanent protection order anyhow, the subject of the protection order will lose his gun rights for the duration of the order (MAXIMUM of two years), and automatically get those gun rights back when the permanent protection order expires. Note: a new permanent protection order could potentially be issued when the perament protection order expires if the judge thinks a danger still exists.

* The subject of the permanent protection order will have 24 hours to turn his guns over to a person of his choice, as long as that person can legally possess firearms.

* The above is basically federal law already, and state law already prohibits a person with such a permanent protection order from purchasing or transporting a firearm.

WHAT’S NEXT?

* VCDL will be monitoring the deal’s progress, watching for changes that negatively affect gun owners.

* If a negative issue arises and is not fixed quickly, I will advise all of you immediately via an Urgent Legislative Action Alert.

* I will also be providing links to the three bills described above as soon as the final language is available online. That way you can read them for yourself.

* For now just standby on this, as I keep you advised of the progress of the deal.

[cwfunrider]

I was getting ready to post the same thing. A buddy emailed it to me this morning. Sounds like a win for us for a change.

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[mamabearCali]

Not too shabby. I am glad to hear it is only for a permanent protection order. At least some due process is retained. Good going!

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[OldEagle]

Is the VASP supposed or required to charge for this service? Or is the law to be written such that it will be a free service?
Also, will the information on the gun transaction be retained in some sort of database?

From VCDL:

* The State Police may charge a reasonable fee. (If they charge more than you want to pay, you can just walk away and do the transaction without the background check.)

* NO information on the make, model, or serial number of the gun being sold will be provided to the State Police - i.e. no federal Form 4473! The purchaser will have to fill out the Virginia form, which asks a few questions and has the buyer's name, address, and signature. (If you don’t want to fill out that form, you can just walk away and do the transaction without the background check.)

* There is a carrot: if a background check is run, the seller receives some special legal protections that are currently not available for private sales. If a background check is not run, you don’t have any more or any less legal protections than under current law.

Note of course that this the content of a proposed deal. My understanding is that the process will be a bill, as for any law, passed by both houses of the legislature and then signed by McAuliffe. That will take at least a little time, but it looks like they are aiming to accomplish this within a month.

Why did McAuliffe agree to this? He's been in bed with Bloomberg and the gun control crowd all along. My guess is that the pushback was so fierce that national Democrat party apparatus got concerned about the electoral impact in this upcoming November's election and leaned on him...in other words, a temporary tactical retreat in the service of a bigger prize.

[WRW]

And we let them off the hook.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[MarcSpaz]

The Governor is onboard because the House and Senate have veto proof Bills. This way, he looks like he did something to make people safe and show he can be bi-partizen. He gets something and we get something. The other way, he would have gotten nothing and lost face.

[mamabearCali]

Too bad we couldn't rub his ugly nose in it!

[Viper21]

I like the "honor all states permits"..!! It may be a baby step but, it's a step towards national reciprocity. Hey, keep what we got & add 3 more states....awesome. It's a start.

[wittmeba]

Outstanding! I'm still getting a Utah permit. LOL

Marc - since you specifically indicate you will get a Utah permit I thought I'd post this if you have not seen it. It seems a little confusing with the various states mentioned but seems to basically indicate you always need your home state permit.

This will need to be updated to reflect the changes to reciprocity take effect.

http://www.shooting-solutions.com/UtahCWP.html

[MarcSpaz]

Thanks for the heads-up. I fully plan on keeping my VA permit since it is my home state. Utah gets me a few more states that I do travel to and/or plan to in the near future.

[MarcSpaz]

BTW... I really hope the new deal goes through. If it does and you have both a VA resident CHP and a Utah non-resident CFP, you will be able to carry in 39 states plus the Virgin Islands; 38 of the lower 48.

If that come true... we will be able to conceal carry in 78% of the country. As much as I hate to have the feds step in and mess with States Rights, we really need the Federal Congress to step-up and force national reciprocity, just like our drivers license.

We are so close to it happening on its own, be we all know freedom hating states like RI, MA, MD, NY, NJ, CA, IL, etc. will never changes. I understand we are a representative government to ensure statistical minority groups don't get abused... but those groups have been grossly abusing us and violating the Constitution.

(v is for VA CHP)

Alabama
Alaska v
Arizona v
Arkansas v
Colorado v
Delaware v
Florida v
Georgia v
Idaho v
Indiana v
Iowa
Kansas v
Kentucky v
Louisiana v
Maine
Michigan v
Minnesota v
Mississippi v
Missouri
Montana v
Nebraska v
New Hampshire v
New Mexico v
North Carolina v
North Dakota v
Ohio v
Oklahoma v
Pennsylvania v
South Carolina v
South Dakota v
Tennessee v
Texas v
Utah v
Vermont
Virgin Islands v
Virginia v
Washington v
West Virginia v
Wisconsin v
Wyoming v

[Viper21]

Thanks for the heads-up. I fully plan on keeping my VA permit since it is my home state. Utah gets me a few more states that I do travel to and/or plan to in the near future.

With Georgia, Colorado, & NH being added to our VA permits.... I BELIEVE the only state gained by obtaining a Utah permit now, will just be Washington State.

I could be wrong but, checking the reciprocity maps, that's what it looked like to me. I've thought about a Utah permit as well. Hell, I lived there for 20+yrs, & have family there now but, not sure if its worth it just to gain Washington.

[MarcSpaz]

There are 5. I posted them above...

Alabama, Iowa, Maine, Missouri, and Vermont.

That is... unless I am missing something.

[Viper21]

There are 5. I posted them above...

Alabama, Iowa, Maine, Missouri, and Vermont.

That is... unless I am missing something.

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry ... _maps.html

Alabama, Iowa, & Missouri we already have. Same with Vermont <--constitutional carry.

According to the map.... Maine does NOT recognize Utah out of state permit. Only Resident permits.

[Ironbear]

Too bad we couldn't rub his ugly nose in it!

Looks like the people control advocates might be on it!
http://thehill.com/regulation/267579-vi ... y-surprise
They feel he betrayed them! Such irony. Of course it would so much more satisfying if he got it rubbed by both sides...

[Swampman]

Politicians can't help but piss people off. It's the nature of the beast.

Besides, it sure is fun to hear the haters whine.

[dorminWS]

I took the Utah CHP course scheduled at Abingdon Saturday by Senator Carrico. He says that it is not a done deal yet, and although he didn't come right out and say it, it is obvious he doesn't trust TMac and Herring to not somehow welch on the deal. So I'm sitting here with a certificate and sanctioned fingerprint card. I'd already paid $75 for the course. The fee on filing for the permit is $49 if I'm not mistaken. For another $50, I might just go ahead and do it even if the Virginia deal does go through. Bad thing is that if I read the chart right, if the "reciprocity" deal does not happen, I still won't be able to carry in South Carolina because they only recognize RESIDENT Utah permits.

Interesting wrinkle on Herring's position on gun rights: He apparently contacted the people who put on the class and told them they COULD NOT, under TMac's EO, bring firearms onto the grounds of the Southwest Virginia Higher Education Center for use in teaching the Utah CHP class. The instructor, I understand, is a LEO. So he had to use plastic guns and videos to teach the class. Now, I ask you: Does that stunt by our AG sound like the action of a guy who intends to honor the spirit of the "reciprocity" deal?