What's unusual about this IDF rifle?

[AlanM]

Here's the picture:

That's an Israeli IDF soldier. Notice the magazine?
What he is holding is a Ruger 10/22.

The plinker went to war: The IDF's Ruger 10/22

Ever since their beginnings in 1948, the Israeli Defense Force has had to think outside the box to come up with weapon's systems, therefore it shouldn't surprise you that for the past 20 years the Israelis have used a (much-modified) 10/22 for use in both special operations and in security operations.

I wonder if the gun-banners here in the US would call it an "assault rifle".

[ouyin2000]

Of course it's an "assault rifle". It has a clip magazine and a shoulder thing that goes up.

[Reverenddel]

Sentry take down, removing guard dogs, removing sources of light in compounds, flattening tires on escape vehicles, etc., etc.

I can think of MANY uses for a .22lr in a combat scenario.

[SHMIV]

If I found myself obliged to venture into battle, and all I had was a 10/22, I expect that I'd be thankful for it.

I would just have to be sneaky in my tactics.

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[jmax]

10/22s were banned in Australia as they were "Assault" weapons by virtue of detachable magazines so now we know that they were right

[Snakester]

I can see under the right circumstances a 10/22 could be the weapon of choice. With 25 & 35 round mags. they do have quite a bit of fire power. They are also light weight and easy to carry. I have 4 - 10/22's one having the wood stock that I have had since 1980. It still shoots perfect and I never have had any problems at all . When TSHTF I'm pretty sure Carol and I will find a few uses for our 2 Take Down Rugers.

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[AlanM]

Somewhere I noticed that someone commented that most the pictures of soldiers with the 10/22s had others with them with M16s and the like.

Someone also commented that a suppressed .22lr firearm shooting subsonic ammo would be VERY quiet.

[Reverenddel]

Not even "subsonic" brother! I have shot many a suppressed 10/22, using "STANDARD velocity" ammo, and all you hear is the action moving, and the bullet smacking the target.

It's kinda a turn on... Just sayin'...

[MarcSpaz]

I've shot suppressed sub-sonic .22...3. LoL. It was damn quiet. Won't cycle an AR, but my SIG 516 has a mode to simulate bolt action.

Anyway. I loved my GSG5, which is a clone of the HK MP5/22. I figured my Savage Bolt 22, my. MP5, and a small pistol would amount to light weight, so you can carry 3 weapons depending on what you're doing and carry a ton of ammunition too.

I got ridiculed horribly for the idea, so I let the MP5 go and never got the pistol. This makes me wonder if I had the right idea all along.

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[lizjimbo]

A 22lr might not kill ya but I don't think the point is to kill ya. What I understand is that they shoot for the ankles in which case they will remove the bad guy plus a couple of comrades from the fight for a period of time.

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[MarcSpaz]

Shooting anywhere but center mass or a clean sharpshooter head shot doesn't happen in battle and shouldn't happen in defense. Shoot to kill or don't shoot.

And, yes... - .22LR will kill you. I have seen people get shot in the head with 22's and die instantly. In the US, we have more gun fatalities with .25 ACP then all other rounds. The second most with .22, and combined with .25 ACP, they kill more people in the US then all other rounds combined. And I'm pretty sure that if you have a semi-auto that holds 20+ rounds per mag, with a repeatable 10x2.5 wound channel, I'm sure 5 or 10 rapid shots to center mass will stop someone pretty quickly. I know I wouldn't want to be on the business end of even one shot.

[AlanM]

I know of an intruder that was killed by a woman using a .22lr rifle to defend herself and mother. Happened in the Canton, Oh area some time back.
The had called 911 saying that the ex boyfriend was beating on the door yelling that he was going to kill her.
They called 911 back in five minutes and said there was no hurry, just send a coroner.

[Reverenddel]

You take 25 rounds of hypervelocity .22 LR hollowpoints, and put them into something the size of a honeydew?

Honey don't no mo'! Just sayin'!

[Ironbear]

Never met anyone who said that a .22 LR is "inadequate", who was willing to stand downrange for even a .22 short or CB!

As for the use of .22's... I vaguely recall reading an article a long time ago (25+ years) that stated that studies show that riots/mobs are usually instigated/kept going by a relatively small number of people; and that by removing the key people the riot/mob would naturally dissipate. The reason I remember the article was that it suggested that skilled marksmen with suppressed .22s could be used to achieve this, and with modern medical care, didn't have to be fatal!!!

While it makes a certain amount of theoretical sense, I hope we can all agree that attempting to "non-lethally" shoot individuals, in a crowd, seems like a profoundly bad idea; likely cooked up by some of them government, think-tank "bright boys" with no common sense!!!

[MarcSpaz]

Profoundly bad is an understatement. Morally speaking, if the riot isn't violent, lethal force is uncalled for. Shooting them with a 22 is still lethal force. Unless we are talking about shooting them with a fire hose or bean bags, expect them to die.

[dorminWS]

I'm willing to assume that if the Isrealis deployed it, it is damned effective. Those guys don't deal in half measures when it comes to defending their homeland. They don't have enough ground to give up any at all.

[Ironbear]

Profoundly bad is an understatement. Morally speaking, if the riot isn't violent, lethal force is uncalled for. Shooting them with a 22 is still lethal force.

We agree on that. Unfortunately history has this nasty habit of reminding us that governments don't always make "moral" (or even sensible) choices.

In a fit of pedantry, however, I would argue that a "riot", by definition is violent. Lethal force may not be called for, but if it is a "riot", it is "violent".

Back the the original post, as far as the IDF is concerned, it is probably in their best interest to have a variety of tools to deal with a variety of situations. A 105mm HE is not always the best solution to every problem.