Church Carry?

[krmgator]

For those who have a VA CCP.

I know you can not carry at church during church; but what about other functions: cookouts, picnics, parties and the like? All sponsored by the church, but not services.

Splitting hairs?

[ProShooter]

Who said you can't carry?

No court in Va, nor any statute has ever defined "good and sufficient cause". Self-defense in my book is a damn good cause. Any number of church shootings around the US only adds to my need for self-defense.

[gregj]

You cant carry in church. It's a little vague about carrying to church functions. The definition of "good and sufficient reason" might be tough to explain if you get made in church while CC.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-283

� 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.

If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

(Code 1950, � 18.1-241; 1960, c. 358; 1962, c. 411; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)

[allingeneral]

But as stated by ProShooter - there is no definition for "Good and sufficient reason". I personally believe that self defense is good and sufficient reason, and I don't think a prosecutor can prove otherwise.

[GS78]

For those who have a VA CCP.

I know you can not carry at church during church; but what about other functions: cookouts, picnics, parties and the like? All sponsored by the church, but not services.

Splitting hairs?

um, what do you mean, you cant carry during church?
Did you see the people shot during church last year? I carry in church, in the bank, everywhere except courthouses.

[zephyp]

The code clearly says "good and sufficient reason." IMO that means if you "think" there might be a threat it is ok to do so. The argument would be whether it is up to you to prove there was a threat or for the prosecutor to prove there wasnt. Having said that if you know the pastor it might be prudent to ask if you can. If you are caught and someone looks to make an issue of it, permission from the pastor would kill it (no pun intended).

[krmgator]

Since I have been carrying in VA (about 2 years), I have interpreted church during services to be a GFZ per the VA statute. Just like schools (with an exception or 2) and businesses where it is expressly posted and prohibited.

Have I not interpreted this correctly?

[ProShooter]

Have I not interpreted this correctly?

In the collective opinions stated above, no you have not....

[zephyp]

Since I have been carrying in VA (about 2 years), I have interpreted church during services to be a GFZ per the VA statute. Just like schools (with an exception or 2) and businesses where it is expressly posted and prohibited.

Have I not interpreted this correctly?

Generaly speaking, any quaifier attached to a law is a loophole. "without good and sufficient reason" is an excellent example...

[Vahunter]

If the church has preschool classes for the little ones during the week then you cannot carry because it's then considered a school. My wife is a church secretary and since she is alone there alot one of the deacons suggested she started packin'. Well she checked into the law and found that she has to leave he gun in her car because of the preschool program in the mornings.

[NewColonial]

Interesting thread. What's the thoughts if the church has a school on the premises? Can one carry into the church, or detached office, if there is a school behind the church?

[dooleey]

So i must say i was intrigued to find this forum...
I just joined so i could add some input at well i love the fact that the law say's without sufficient reason....

I occasionally like to workout on my way to church which means ride my bike the 10miles there and 10 back, i do however run through some rough areas, so i always carry my firearm... I technically think my reason for carrying into the Church would be I have no car to store it in... But usually I just through it in my buddies f-150 who has the door combo that i know... Wish we could get some legal advice on this topic, as it seems we are all curious....

Newport New's Va

[Palladin]

So i must say i was intrigued to find this forum...
I just joined so i could add some input at well i love the fact that the law say's without sufficient reason....

I occasionally like to workout on my way to church which means ride my bike the 10miles there and 10 back, i do however run through some rough areas, so i always carry my firearm... I technically think my reason for carrying into the Church would be I have no car to store it in... But usually I just through it in my buddies f-150 who has the door combo that i know... Wish we could get some legal advice on this topic, as it seems we are all curious....

Newport New's Va

and hop right in!

[ProShooter]

If the church has preschool classes for the little ones during the week then you cannot carry because it's then considered a school.

That is not correct. The law against carrying in schools only prohibits carrying in a public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school (18.2-308.1)....basically K-12.

Pre-K is not part of an elementary school when it is in a church. Now while some elementary schools have pre-K classes, a church with a Pre-K class is just a church with a Pre-K class.

Not legal advice, just my opinion and its worth every penny that you paid for it.

[wally626]

i would like to see some case law on this. Has anyone been convicted of carrying a gun to a religious service? I need a gun to in general protect myself, does not seem to strong a defense.

The secretary could get appointed as a security officer and probably get around the school law and the church service law. Whether she would need a armed security card permit I do not know.

[allingeneral]

IANAL.

I can't locate any case law with any of the following search terms for Church carry:

"good and sufficient reason" (No hits)

"Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship" (No hits)

weapon "religious worship" (No hits)

18.2-283 (No hits)

You can perform your own case law searches of Virginia Supreme Court and Court of Appeals at the following link:

http://www.courts.state.va.us/search/textopinions.html

I like this site and will now add it to the left menu under "Code of Virginia" for future reference of our members.

[Vahunter]

If the church has preschool classes for the little ones during the week then you cannot carry because it's then considered a school.

That is not correct. The law against carrying in schools only prohibits carrying in a public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school (18.2-308.1)....basically K-12.

Pre-K is not part of an elementary school when it is in a church. Now while some elementary schools have pre-K classes, a church with a Pre-K class is just a church with a Pre-K class.

Not legal advice, just my opinion and its worth every penny that you paid for it.

That's what I thought. I told my wife them CHP instructors don't know squat and a church was not a school so don't believe the person teaching the class.

[GS78]

well here's how I look at it. If the priest, rabbi,Immam catches me carrying, I can ask for forgiveness..... If a looneytoon comes in and starts shooting, and my gun is locked in my trunk, I can't.

[CajunBass]

I will neither confirm nor deny that I carry to church.

I will say my pastor, and deacons all know I carry. Nobody ever said "You better not bring that thing in here."

I just remembered. I was leaving home here one day and one of the ladies at the church was here. She spotted my Colt 38 on my hip and asked "Do you always carry a gun?" I said "Pretty much." She replied "Even at church?" I gave the confirm nor deny reply. She laughed and said "I hope somebody does."

[Palladin]

I will neither confirm nor deny that I carry to church.

I will say my pastor, and deacons all know I carry. Nobody ever said "You better not bring that thing in here."

I just remembered. I was leaving home here one day and one of the ladies at the church was here. She spotted my Colt 38 on my hip and asked "Do you always carry a gun?" I said "Pretty much." She replied "Even at church?" I gave the confirm nor deny reply. She laughed and said "I hope somebody does."

I know ladies at my church that carry... in church!