Moral Fact

[Viper21]

An interesting read.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com//2 ... ral-facts/

Another scenario where teaching your children morals, values, etc, at home..... is at times in direct conflict with the education system. Has to be a challenge for some young people to be taught one thing at home, then given conflicting information at school/college/etc. Especially when, having differing views will, or can lead to lesser grades.

[SHMIV]

That fact vs. opinion thing has been around for a while. I remember that from the 80's. I was never able to articulate why, but I was never comfortable with the teaching. I guess, being of elementary school age, I wasn't too inclined to really think about it. Then I forgot about it.

Good article.

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[thekinetic]

Well the truth of the matter is morals are like fear based out of necessity but in the end are all in our minds. They don't exist except for what a society makes for itself. It's why people will never get along because individuals will always have conflicting ideas. All we can do is agree to disagree and tolerate one another.

[Reverenddel]

"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - "Tower of the Elephant"- 1933- Robert E Howard.

[Reverenddel]

"Barbarism is the natural state of mankind," the borderer said, still staring somberly at the Cimmerian. "Civilization is unnatural. It is a whim of circumstance. And barbarism must always triumph."- "Beyond the Black River"-1934-Robert E Howard

[jdonovan]

I have a Chemistry book from the 1830's, and its quite interesting to a reader of today what was put forth as well settled scientific fact at the time.

Based on the above rules, on facts/opinions perhaps I should regard everything I read as opinion?

How long does a fact like opinion need to stand before we consider it fact? How long did the flat earth, or earth centered solar system hold? Anyone still confused if pluto is/isn't a planet?

Now on the side of morality... perhaps thats better asked in context of a society/culture, and one of norms and mores in that culture.

[SHMIV]

From Merriam Webster's 1828 dictionary; the definition of fact and opinion:

OPINION, noun opin'yon. [Latin opinio, from opinor, to thing, Gr., Latin suppono.]

1. The judgment which the mind forms of any proposition, statement, theory or event, the truth or falsehood of which is supported by a degree of evidence that renders it probably, but does not produce absolute knowledge or certainty. It has been a received opinion that all matter is comprised in four elements. This opinion is proved by many discoveries to be false. From circumstances we form opinions respecting future events.

OPINION is when the assent of the understanding is so far gained by evidence of probability, that it rather inclines to one persuasion than to another, yet not without a mixture of uncertainty or doubting.

2. The judgment or sentiments which the mind forms of persons or their qualities. We speak of a good opinion a favorableopinion a bad opinion a private opinion and public or general opinion etc.

Friendship gives a man a peculiar right and claim to the good opinion of his friend.

3. Settled judgment or persuasion; as religious opinions; political opinion

4. Favorable judgment; estimation.

In actions of arms, small matters are of great moment, especially when they serve to raise an opinion of commanders.

However, I have no opinion of these things -

OPIN'ION, verb transitive To think. [Not used.]



FACT, noun [Latin factum, from facio, to make or do.]

1. Any thing done, or that comes to pass; an act; a deed; an effect produced or achieved; an event. Witnesses are introduced into court to prove a fact Facts are stubborn things. To deny a factknowingly is to lie.

2. Reality; truth; as, in fact So we say, indeed.

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[FiremanBob]

There is an objective basis for morality. It stems from the fact that man is the only animal that must use his ability to think in order to survive, and that to be able to think he must be free to use his mind. Mutual respect for this fundamental requirement in the context that all men are created equal becomes the basis for the Golden Rule, which becomes the basis for private property and the prohibition on the aggressive use of force.

Societies and cultures that do not respect this objective morality are immoral and not deserving of respect.

A simple application of this rule would cleanse the United Nations and bring clarity to our understanding, and therefore our ability to deal with, the global crisis.

[thekinetic]

But man does not treat others as equals, never have! They only see those who are better or those that are lesser. This is humanity, claiming morality but disregarding it when it becomes a burden. Myth only brings chaos, and chaos brings false morality. Only through logic and reason can truth be established. While truth may not bring equality, it will certainly show that one does not need to be equal in order to have peace. Of course logic, reason, and truth is the enemy of those who seek to remove freedom and call themselves our masters.

[Mindflayer]

Societies and cultures are based on a common set of beliefs, which includes morals and ethics. This is the biggest reason the Islamist movement is seen as a threat - it espouses a wildly different base morality and that threatens what's left of our core Western, secular-but-Christian-based, progressive (in the classical sense) culture.

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[FiremanBob]

It is wrong to attempt to legitimize Islam on the basis of it being from another culture. There is objective morality, based on the principles I outlined above, and on that premise Islam is pure evil, just like Communism, National Socialism, Progressivism and Scientology.