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[jadedone4]

OK, while walking the German Shepherd tonight (I'm carrying she's not) another dog runs up on us, off-leash, bearing teeth. Now in this case I know the owner so I make sure that I am not between the two (him = 100lbs, my GSD = 75lbs), dogs do the posturing barking and he comes in close (still bearing teeth) - they engage - but no bites just jumping at one another. Other dog semi-adheres to owner's commands to "come here" etc; but then runs up on us again, at this point reflexes hit me and the leg comes up to kick the other dog in mid-section to distract; no boot-stomp just a kick-push to take him out of whatever "mode" he was in.

Question - when is it appropriate to take escalated actions in a dog/dog/human situation? My GSD has been "run up on..." multiple times, usually it is a smaller dog and I can get my hands on the other dogs collar/leash and keep them separate - it's a PITA when I have NEVER allowed my dog off-leashed, or ability to run up on other's (human or canine). Starting to get a few "pits" in the neighborhood and quite frankly, while I know it ain't the breed - it's the owner; not comfortable in any manner, especially if the dog is off-leash. On leash, the owner has control so we can move away from one another; off-leash, it is animal instincts at that point.

Anyone every had a situation where you needed to defend with firearm against dog? Seems like a PITA in that some of idiots believe "fido" to be a family-member (love my dog, she's a rescue, but she's a dog not a family-member; unless Uncle Sam will allow me to use her as a tax write-off come 15Apr).

Question is borne more of frustation then application...

[WRW]

I shot a pit bull once. It had rolled a deer dog that had happened onto my place, I grabbed a gun and some birdshot and let him have it (just stung him). Walked around the house and there was the pit bulls owner. I told the owner I was sorry and she said, "you do what you have to do". If I lived in a development, I might have looked around for a bat instead.

[WRW]

Another time I just jumped off the porch and kicked a collie derivative in the ribs (barefoot) when I saw it had my daughter's cat in his mouth and up off the ground. In the OP's case, I would try to insinuate myself between the dogs and feel justified in any action if the hound attacked me.

[jadedone4]

Wow, Gents thanks for the responses... this particular owner is responsible guy; just a bone-head move allowing the dog off-leash, which is (unfortunately) becoming more and more frequent here in community (translation - other owners are following suit). I generally was raised - that if it gots teeth, it can and will bite. Love dogs (hate cats - cost me too much in allergy meds), and would hate to harm, or to have one harmed because of me; but at the same time it just seems that folks are caught-up in "me" mentalities that they forget about general social responsibilities (i.e. keep Fido under your control, etc)

Guess for me it was the moment - just tired of the BS around these parts - more and more thought to movement further outside the "beltway" is looking better and better (and to think it is already 23 miles from my front door to DC).

.. the journey of 23-miles (even further away) begins with one step, grasshopper...

[zephyp]

I do consider my dogs part of the family and ironically so does DOD. For civilians we are part of the emergency response plan for evacuations and one of the considerations is pets. My munchkins are part of the family and I would indeed use measures to protect them even if it included a booted kick to another dogs head or if I had to put it down with a shot. Bottom line is is if a dog like a pitbull will attack your dog whats to stop it from attacking you or your wife or children.

[GS78]

The law in most cases are really fuzzy about when you can take a shot at anything. Generally speaking if the animal being attacked is considered 'a companion animal' it can be defended. In any case, I personally would have a nice chat with the animals' owners and reveal to them your intentions the next time something like this happens, and exactly what you are prepared to do in the event their dog gets violent. Then in case it does come down to it, at least they cannot say they weren't warned.

[WRW]

LOL. "Reveal your intentions". Another daughter used to run in the neighborhood. Little mutt jumped up and bit her on the cheek. When the owner said it couldn't be her dog cause it always stayed inside the fence, I said, "good, cause if this happens again the dog I shoot will be outside the fence and it must not be yours." Never had that problem again.

[newdovo]

...I personally would have a nice chat with the animals' owners and reveal to them your intentions the next time something like this happens, and exactly what you are prepared to do in the event their dog gets violent.

I agree, but I would be careful about my wording to the owner. If a bad scenario happens and you had to shoot the dog later, you may have a day in court; and you wouldn't want him to be able to say "He threatened before that he was going to kill my dog!"
Parry

[zephyp]

...I personally would have a nice chat with the animals' owners and reveal to them your intentions the next time something like this happens, and exactly what you are prepared to do in the event their dog gets violent.

I agree, but I would be careful about my wording to the owner. If a bad scenario happens and you had to shoot the dog later, you may have a day in court; and you wouldn't want him to be able to say "He threatened before that he was going to kill my dog!"
Parry

Yup. Thats all it would take.

[BluemontGlock]

Around these parts, we bang on each others doors, say what we have to say...listen to the reponse, and act accordingly...

but needless to say, a pit ( or any other dog ) off a leash, even showing the possiblity of an issue with being hostile, will be renamed "shortimer"...especially if it is on my property, with no owner in sight...and even if owner is there, but obviously doesn't have control...

and as there are many farms around here, people in this area almost assume that thier animal will be shot if strays onto someone elses property...as many times, they have been...and few things make a cattle rancher angrier than dog chasing thier livestock around...ususally, it doesn't last very long...

[meadmkr]

when is it appropriate to take escalated actions in a dog/dog/human situation?

I suspect you'll get many different answers to this one depending on the situation, the dog(s) and location. I'd go with a less-than-lethal option first but would not hesitate to escalate it I or my family were threatened.

We've had some issues in the past few months with unleashed dogs either attacking other dogs (on a leash being walked) so I've bought a 6pk of pepper sprays off of flea-bay and gave them to the daughter (a jogger) and several of our friends/neighbors with dogs; most for the wifes.

I carry one from time to time as well when I want a less-than-lethal option in dealing with both 2 and 4-legged critters... We've also had problems in Algonkian Park (borders my house) with dogs just being 'dumped' there with the owners driving away. There was at least one case last year of a 'discarded dog' biting a child.

CW

[AXEL]

I happened to see some pretty good tasers on at the fredricksburg gun show, I sure would run if I saw that coming at me.

[Vahunter]

The people across the road from me raise pitbulls for fighting. Just ask them if I'll shoot one. They are still pretty bad even when dragging logging chains, but not badder than a bullet.

[GS78]

...I personally would have a nice chat with the animals' owners and reveal to them your intentions the next time something like this happens, and exactly what you are prepared to do in the event their dog gets violent.

I agree, but I would be careful about my wording to the owner. If a bad scenario happens and you had to shoot the dog later, you may have a day in court; and you wouldn't want him to be able to say "He threatened before that he was going to kill my dog!"
Parry

well maybe I was a little too ambiguous, I would, and have had this conversation about not only dogs but humans, and in each case I was completely understood by the opposition. I have had to have such conversations in the course of my professional life on several occasions and at each time I made it perfectly clear that I wanted no part of harming an innocent human or animal unnecessarily. Although I had allayed their fears, I reiterated the fact that the offensive behavior would cease immediately.

[CajunBass]

My wife, who has a bad back, and knees and walks with a cane, got "attacked" by a couple of pit bulls once when we were living in Richmond. She was walking her dogs and they came after her, or more properly probably the dogs. She let her dogs go, and they fought the PB's in a tactical retreat for a block and a half while she hobbled back to the apartment. The pits had her pinned against the building but weren't really attacking, just barking, lunging in and scaring her.

I hear her screaming for me, and went out to see what was going on to find my dog loving wife screaming "GET A GUN AND KILL THIS SON OF A BIXXX!" Before I could go back in one of the neighbors, an elderly woman came out to do battle armed with an industrial strength broomstick. She gave me the stick, and I hit the bigger, more agressive PB over the head as hard as I could hit it. He got the message and took off with his partner in crime right behind him.

If I had had a gun with me, I'd have killed him on the spot and dealt with the consequences later. My poor wife was scared half to death and crying like a baby.

She said the felt like the only thing that kept them from pressing the attack was her two worthless, stupid little fuzz ball dogs putting up as good a fight as they could to hold the PB's at bay to cover her.

As little as I like those dogs, they earned their kibbles that day.

[gtijohn]

Our neighbor has a chow mix dog that they let run loose...any time it saw us out in our yard it would charge at us barking and showing teeth..My lot is 4 acres and the house is in the middle so this dog is not just wandering over the line he is invading. Anyway,,,my wife has called animal control many times about this dog (Orange County), they basically said there was nothing they could do unless it bit somebody or attacked some kind of livestock. So, we put up a fence off the front of our house ($2000) so our daughter could play in the yard without worrying about the dog...couple years pass...dog as learned to stay away (I guess it doesn't like flying rocks). 2 years ago they (neighbors) stared raising pit bulls. Of course they where letting them run free also. They would come to our fence and terrorize our two little (tiny toy) poodles, we never let daughter out when we so the dogs running around. Again, we called animal control and again same story....So, this time, I went and dug up the property line markers and put up a pasture fence between our properties. Problem seems to have stopped for now..We also did try talking to them, but they kept telling us that the dogs just would not listen and stay where they where supposed to.

Now, we don't talk at all and they know that if one of the dogs bites one of us (adults)it will be dead, if they charge one our children, same thing..

[zephyp]

Anyone letting their dogs run loose like that should know they are asking for trouble. I'd be hog tied before I would spend $2000 on a fence to keep my neighbors dogs out. Mine in yes. I'd take them to the city and then court if that dont work. If one office feeds you BS go a level up and keep doing that until you get someone that will help.

[Jericho01]

I know that in Fairfax County, dogs that are off-leash is illegal. That's one thing going against the dog owner (if this happens in Fairfax). Not sure what the legal consequence of shooting a dog that's about to attack a human or another dog. A good research on this would be helpful. In the meantime, a good and honest talk with the dog owner is a good thing. Also, document the incident next time it happens, or check for witnesses should a lawsuit arise as a result of your defensive action.

[9mmjhp]

"Not sure what the legal consequence of shooting a dog that's about to attack a human or another dog."

i assume same laws apply when faced with a human threat. it would be ok if faced with a threat to your life or bodily harm or the life/body of someone else. the problem is proving it in court.

[SgtBill]

Well I love my dog's and have since I was a little kid. I spent 6 year's as a K-9 Handler in the Police Department. I have a rule at my place, if it is hunting season and a dog or 2 show up at my place sporting a orange collar they get a free pass. If a dog shows up at my place anytime of the year without a collar and I know that it isn't one of my neighbors it will stay on my property forever after the 22-250 impacts it life.
My wife work's at the Hospital on the evening shift and may not get home untill 2 A.M. or so and get out of her car in the dark. I won't have her injured or worse by a stray dog. Please remember that we live out on 100 acers of property.My wife means more to me then any dog.
Bill