Another shooting in MO.

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dorminWS
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Re: Another shooting in MO.

Post by dorminWS »

WellArmed wrote:Some Blacks are over reacting, "crying wolf", and unnecessarily are playing the race card, and many Whites, L.E., and the L.E. supporting (no matter what they do) sheeple are clueless about the behavior of some law enforcement in some predominantly low income minority areas. There's some truth behind the point of view on both sides, and I personally understand why each side feels the way they do....

The problem is that people on both sides, like some in this very thread, are more interested in hearing themselves speak and insulting the other side instead of trying to understand why they feel the way they do...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I have long been a critic of the militarization of the police, and I am certainly aware that police powers are extremely susceptible to abuse and overreach. Police sometimes step out of line. When they do, there should certainly be appropriate sanctions.

But I am no less skeptical of people who breach the peace and then complain if the keepers of the peace exert force to enforce the peace.

If I were a cop right now, I'd be a fool if I wasn't being pretty paranoid about the intentions of everybody I came into contact with; because how would I know which one wanted to "put wings on another pig". So, if you want LEOs to be quick on the trigger and suspicious of everybody they deal with, what's going on right now is the best way I know to make that happen.

Should police be respectful of the rights and prerogatives of the general public? Absolutely. Should the general public extend that same consideration to the police? Of course they should. How to defuse this powder keg that exists now? I suggest that people everywhere should mind their own business, obey the law, and conduct themselves when dealing with the police as if they were talking to a friend; treating them as they'd want to be treated if they were the cop. Some folks might be amazed at what a little mutual respect will do to smooth things out.
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Re: Another shooting in MO.

Post by WellArmed »

Reverenddel wrote:"The problem is that people on both sides, like some in this very thread, are more interested in hearing themselves speak and insulting the other side instead of trying to understand why they feel the way they do..."

Noooo, we COMPLETELY understand why they feel the way they do. It's just that when someone acts a fool, and disregards polite societal rules, and wants to commit wanton acts of violence. We will defend ourselves.

As to "bad cops" in "low income" neighborhoods? I've always thought that LEO's should have to justify violence to a civilian board. Same as a civilian has to justify it to the magistrate, and Commonwealth's Attorneys.

But living in a "low income neighborhood" does not excuse theft, violence, or sexual assaults. All of which are HIGHER because there is a "nothing left to lose" attitude.

Did you not understand that you're on a PRO-GUN site? Just checking considering you're only 8 post in. We do not excuse bad behavior because "mommy was poor", and "You don't know who is your daddy".
I hate to break it to you, but just like there are bad apples in the police department, there were bad apples who resorted to looting, rioting, and shooting those police officers in NYC. It should be obvious to anyone with even a lick of common sense, but not all people that live in "low income neighborhood" are going around stealing, killing, and raping. That assumption statement alone proves your ignorance.

I know exactly where I am. Just because I'm "pro gun" and am on a "pro gun site" does not mean I have to share an ignorant point of view magnified by your childish and immature "mommy was poor", and "You don't know who is your daddy" comment.

Both sides repeatedly insulting each other isn't going to solve anything, and if you ask me, both sides are being played against each other for the media's benefit. Both sides are playing the fool.

Like I just said, I'm tired of hearing it. Grow up. All "poor" are aren't criminals, all Republicans aren't Racist, all police officers aren't targeting Black people. All these insulting stereotypical hateful crap both sides are spewing is out right sickening.
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Re: Another shooting in MO.

Post by Reverenddel »

Like Dorm, I am not a fan of Militarization of Law Enforcement, however they choose to serve the community, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. I live in a POOR section of town, and the lawlessness sometimes pisses me off because the philosophy is "Your inconvenience is none of my concern."

Let me inform you... We're born with instincts. Those instincts serve a survival process.

You go with your emotions...

I'll keep my instincts...

In the end? See who becomes a victim.
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Re: Another shooting in MO.

Post by WellArmed »

dorminWS wrote:
WellArmed wrote:Some Blacks are over reacting, "crying wolf", and unnecessarily are playing the race card, and many Whites, L.E., and the L.E. supporting (no matter what they do) sheeple are clueless about the behavior of some law enforcement in some predominantly low income minority areas. There's some truth behind the point of view on both sides, and I personally understand why each side feels the way they do....

The problem is that people on both sides, like some in this very thread, are more interested in hearing themselves speak and insulting the other side instead of trying to understand why they feel the way they do...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I have long been a critic of the militarization of the police, and I am certainly aware that police powers are extremely susceptible to abuse and overreach. Police sometimes step out of line. When they do, there should certainly be appropriate sanctions.

But I am no less skeptical of people who breach the peace and then complain if the keepers of the peace exert force to enforce the peace.

If I were a cop right now, I'd be a fool if I wasn't being pretty paranoid about the intentions of everybody I came into contact with; because how would I know which one wanted to "put wings on another pig". So, if you want LEOs to be quick on the trigger and suspicious of everybody they deal with, what's going on right now is the best way I know to make that happen.

Should police be respectful of the rights and prerogatives of the general public? Absolutely. Should the general public extend that same consideration to the police? Of course they should. How to defuse this powder keg that exists now? I suggest that people everywhere should mind their own business, obey the law, and conduct themselves when dealing with the police as if they were talking to a friend; treating them as they'd want to be treated if they were the cop. Some folks might be amazed at what a little mutual respect will do to smooth things out.
I agree with you 100%. I understand where the other side is coming from even though I do not agree that the current shootings had anything to do with race. I say this because my mother was in the military (now retired), got a divorce, and had to take care me and my sister with little help on a low military salary. We had no choice but to live within our means in those "low income neighborhoods.

During the few years that we lived there before purchasing a home, I seen police officers stopping people who were just walking down the street to frisk and sometimes harass them. I've seen them outright nitpick people, and continuously stop and/or pull people over for any little thing they could think up. I've seen them arrest people for trespassing when all they were doing was walking through a housing area, or through a shopping center. I've seen a lot of inflammatory behavior from L.E. in those neighborhoods. I seen people getting arrested on trumped up charges. Be honest, even in the Eric Garner case, no officer would likely arrest someone for selling 1 cigarette in the suburbs...

Now I would understand if these officers were picking with the know bad apples, put they targeted everyone, and treated those that were law abiding no different than the criminals. This is why many in these neighborhoods have animosity towards law enforcement. Both sides need to treat the other with more respect. No one gains anything by throwing around hateful stereotypes based on what a handful of idiots are doing.

I agree with everything you stated 110%, but there's 2 sides to the story.
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Re: Another shooting in MO.

Post by WellArmed »

Reverenddel wrote:Like Dorm, I am not a fan of Militarization of Law Enforcement, however they choose to serve the community, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. I live in a POOR section of town, and the lawlessness sometimes pisses me off because the philosophy is "Your inconvenience is none of my concern."

Let me inform you... We're born with instincts. Those instincts serve a survival process.

You go with your emotions...

I'll keep my instincts...

In the end? See who becomes a victim.
It pisses me off as well. It pisses a lot of other law abiding citizens that live in those areas too. Just playing the the devil's advocate here, it does not help the L.E.'s case when they're treating everyone in the community as being lawless individuals. When they do, the people in those communities start to distrust the cops, and sympathize with the criminals. Now I'm not saying that ALL cops are like this, but one bad apple will spoil the reputation of the bunch.
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Re: Another shooting in MO.

Post by scott9050 »

If anyone has been on this board for a while they have seen that Ferguson has destroyed several narratives of the left.

One of those was 'You don't need guns, the police will protect you'. Ferguson showed clearly that the police will sit while your property is burned to the ground and do nothing. The gun owners who protected their businesses went unlooted.

Another one was "You gun nuts who are armed because of government over reach are crazy".

Turns out those who think the government can't act like an arm of the mafia with stop and frisk, no warrant cash seizures and general harassment were wrong in their assessment. Unarmed citizens are getting shot left and right, and that includes a large number of whites with Fairfax county stonewalling with one particular case for a year and a half now.

These incidents while tragic in their overall nature have been beneficial in making several points that gun owners have been stating for years.
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Re: Another shooting in MO.

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VACoastie wrote:It's true Monkey, you're right. I live in Suffolk and pretty close to every base around. But I have had an attempted robbery on me about 6 years ago when I was in Portsmouth. I was at a drive-thru and some fool stuck his arms in my window reaching for my neck demanding money. I promptly put him in a headlock, introduced my fist to his throat a few times and threw him out my window. Now I could only imagine that happening to me when I wasn't in my car and things would have been a lot worse for the both of us more than likely. Compound the racial tensions with the Black Community lately and I could see a lot of the hoodlums around here trying some dumb stuff.

Plus, as the saying goes. It's better to have and not need than to need and not have. I suppose I could OC but I just don't like to doing that much unless I feel the urge, which it has a few times since I've been back in the area :)

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Just a little OT here.. I'd get one as soon as you can.. I got mine as soon as I could when I move down here from NY.
Not just for the CC part, (at the time I didn't have anything to CC) it helped when purchasing a firearm, or I needed to prove a background check or second form of ID.
for the time and $$ is was worth it. :thumbsup:
carry on! ;)
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Re: Another shooting in MO.

Post by MarcSpaz »

WellArmed wrote:It pisses me off as well. It pisses a lot of other law abiding citizens that live in those areas too. Just playing the the devil's advocate here, it does not help the L.E.'s case when they're treating everyone in the community as being lawless individuals. When they do, the people in those communities start to distrust the cops, and sympathize with the criminals. Now I'm not saying that ALL cops are like this, but one bad apple will spoil the reputation of the bunch.
I have some bad news for you there. Cops MUST treat everyone like they are a criminal. They have no way of knowing who is a criminal and who is not. If they assume no one is a criminal and act like everybody is friends, they lose their position of authority and put themselves at a much higher level of risk. You lower your guard and you're dead. Its that simple.

With regard to crime and its relation to low-income communities... its a statistical fact that crime is higher in low income communities compared to areas with higher average earnings. Look at DC. Their inner city crime rate is 40%+ higher compared to DC suburbs. This is typical. The city of Detroit is another good example. 23 people out of every 1,000 are convicted felons who committed violent crimes. And this is down 36% since 1996. In the suburb of Wheaton, its only 3 people for every 100,000.

Its not racist, stereotyping or being prejudgmental. Its a fact.
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Re: Another shooting in MO.

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THIS CRAP makes the whole thing much, much worse.

http://humanevents.com/2014/12/30/liber ... ampaign=nl
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Re: Another shooting in MO.

Post by MarcSpaz »

What are "race quotas for arrests"? If I read this right, instead of arresting people because they committed a crime, there needs to be a proportionate amount of arrests based on skin color??? Skin Color??? Not if you committed a crime?

Jesus Christ. They are actually demanding the police department be racist. What the hell is going on in this country? "Well Mr. murder/rapist... today is your lucky day. You're black and we haven't arrested enough White people this month... so you're free to go."

But Conservative white men are the racist ones?

Imagine using this to raise your kids. Well Johnny, I'm not going to punish you for breaking the lamp while throwing the football in the house, because your younger brother Chris hasn't done anything wrong lately, and it would be unfair to punish you more than Chris.

Or, Well Chris... Johnny broke the lamp tossing the football in the house, so you are both grounded for a week, even though you were are the grocery store with me and had nothing to do with the lamp being broken.

Nope... still doesn't work for me
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Re: Another shooting in MO.

Post by Reverenddel »

They shot multiple cops lately.

William Turner in Richmond. 2 in NYC, and one in Miami.

Start carrying folks. Things aren't good when people shoot cops.
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Re: Another shooting in MO.

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Don't forget about the 2 cops in Cali that got fired on with a high power rifle when showing up at a scene by someone unrelated to the initial call.

Its a mess out there and its only going to get worse.

Two more shot last night in NYC....

http://news.yahoo.com/manhunt-under-way ... 44225.html
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Re: Another shooting in MO.

Post by Reverenddel »

Crap! Didn't hear about the Cali LEO's.

The two in NYC? I knew by association. This is starting to piss me off.
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Re: Another shooting in MO.

Post by WellArmed »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2myApEZrm1I

Yea... Liberals and minorities need to stop resisting arrest just like the thug in the video above! I support law enforcement 100% percent. If the cops would have shot this unarmed thug for resisting and going after the officer's gun (just as in Michael Brown's case), then all these Blacks, Obama, and Al Sharpton would have been protesting and whining about this too! Then we'd be here talking about how us honest law abiding gun toting White folks are tired of these liberal race baiting violent thugs " of the left looting, assaulting and killing for any reason." We'd be here talking about how the thug in the above shouldn't have had resisted or went for the gun, and the officers had every right to defend their lives! :clap:

One thing I don't get though... Why did these men in blue who put their life on the line for us try and hide the dash cam? :whistle:

Ignorance is bliss isn't it? I sure am glad that the internal affairs investigation found no wrongdoing on behave of the officers. :hysterical:
Reverenddel wrote:Crap! Didn't hear about the Cali LEO's.

The two in NYC? I knew by association. This is starting to piss me off.
Me too brother.. Me too!
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Re: Another shooting in MO.

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