"Well-Regulated" & "Guns Kill People"

[MarcSpaz]

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I am about as feed up as I can get with some of these freedom hating, gun-grabing jerks. I had an argument with someone today, who really got me worked up. (started due to her noticing me open carrying)

She was complaining about people killed with guns and how they should be completely illegal. I told her guns don't kill people... people kill people, with guns, knifes, cars, hammers, etc. She said "Gun do kill people. They don't have any other purpose but to kill. And the founding fathers agree with me!" "That's why the Second Amendment says for a "Well-Regulated" militia. The founding father expected tight laws and gun control."

Well, I had all but told her off. I told her that sometimes, the preservation of innocence requires that evil be slain, and a tool equal to or greater than that evil is needed. I also said based on publications of the Oxford Dictionary between 1700 and 1900, with the Constitution being written in the middle of those 200 years, well-regulated has meant that something is in proper working order. Not that it need to be restricted. Well she just started squawking like a chicken, yelling so loud I couldn't tell have of what she said. I just walked away.

Not only did regulate or "well-regulated" mean something was working properly back then... it still does now. I did a quick Google search and this was the very first result...

reg·u·late
ˈregyəˌlāt/

verb

past tense: regulated; past participle: regulated

control or maintain the rate or speed of (a machine or process) so that it operates properly.
"a hormone that regulates metabolism and organ function"

The Federalist paper #29, before the Constitution was written, Hamilton specified that "a well-regulated militia" meant a well trained military, explaining through 3 or 4 paragraphs of of text.

In Heller, the U.S. Supreme Court stated that "the adjective 'well-regulated' implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training."

We really need to fight hard to educate this folks... some of them don't even understand English and claim to "know what the founders think", but they want to control our lives.

I figured I would pass this info on, in the even that someone confronts any of you on these two points. Its nice to have fact to fall back on instead of emotion.

Spaz
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[j1mmyd]

I've also come to believe that common usage of "regulated" at the time the Bill of Rights was drafted meant "made regular", meaning "functional", "consistent" or "normal". It definitely didn't mean "restricted by regulations".

[SHMIV]

If "well regulated" meant "restricted by regulation", as asserted by the under-educated, loud, and shrill woman, that would greatly conflict with the phrase "shall not be infringed".

By the way, I have a handy little app on my phone: Webster's 1828 dictionary. It requires some form of internet access, as it just jumps you to the website, but I find it useful when I want to know what the Founding Fathers meant by a particular word.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[M1A4ME]

Read the history about the life of the colonists in New England.

Every "man" was expected to have a musket. He was expected to be a part of the militia. He was expected to attend the regular (well regulated) training sessions. He was expected to answer the call for defense of the local area (well regulated). He was expected to participate in the voting for the leadership (yeah, they voted for their leaders) of the militia unit and if elected to lead to the best of his ability (well regulated). Quite often, the local church was the armory for the militia unit. Extra muskets and powder/ball were stored in the church.

If a family moved to the area and the man of the house/family did not own a musket he would be given one with the specific agreement (well regulated) that he would join the militia unit, attend the training and any call to muster in the defense of the local area.

Well regulated didn't mean government laws. It meant following the rules of the militia unit, the local area, in defense of the people, the property and the future.

Read up on it.

[Swampman]

That was then. Now militia's are seen as "homegrown terrorists", something to be feared and squashed. They infringe on the power and scope of a completely out of control federal government. My, how the times do change.

[Palladin]

The more they change, the more they stay the same...

[Reverenddel]

See? You guys are EXCELLENT examples of GOOD gun carriers.

I can't tolerated stupid anymore. I just raise an eyebrow over dark sunglasses, and look menacing.

[SpanishInquisition]

MarcSpaz, simply question her about her male ancestors from the 18th to early 20th century and how they had sexual congress with men because they were "happy and gay".

If that doesn't open her eyes to definition creep over time, then there's nothing to save her.

[Reverenddel]

Or... be a bad gunowner, and tell her to "Eff off and mind her own".

[JamesRK]

You are correct. At the time the Second Amendment was written "well regulated" simply meant well trained and equipped. Unfortunately this woman has her head made up and you couldn't change it if you took out her brain and put it back in sideways. Your time would be better spent talking to people willing to listen to reason.

[MarcSpaz]

I try not to act like a jerk when people start these little tiffs (only had a few over the years) but man, I would love to tell them to bug off. Sometimes I wonder why I make the effort.

Maybe, even if I don't get through to the person I am talking to, someone around us who overhears the convo may be swayed. I don't know.


EDIT:
Man... I wrote this when my day was over... I have to stop posting when I'm tired. All kinds of spelling and word use errors. LOL

[0ne5hot]

Here are a few options for you to say to people like her...







Best used when you are in the hood


My personal favorite

[Nat]

Let ISIS show up over here and all the gun haters will be on our side.

[Radiac]

I'm pretty sure we have ISIS here already.

http://news.msn.com/us/video?videoid=53 ... =ansnews11

[AlanM]

Here's the link to Webster's 1828 Dictionary

And the definition of "Regulated"

regulated
REG'ULATED, pp. Adjusted by rule, method or forms; put in good order; subjected to rules or restrictions.

I have read somewhere long ago that regulated meant "made to be the same" and in the context of the militia this implies "equipped the same".
This has always brought to my mind the image of a "Regulator" banjo clock in a bus or train station that were considered by everyone to keep steady, consistent, accurate time.


BTW - Regulator clocks were invented in the late 1700's.

[Mav]

wow.. i fell for yah Marc.
I try not to argue with stupid.. it only brings you down and then they beat you on experience.