1911--45 Cal: Sig versus Kimber custom?

[casadomi]

Tried out a Kimber 1911 45 and it was great. I recently saw a Sig 1911 45 that is supposed to be the Kimber's competitor. It looks real nice but I have not used it yet. Any opinions on these two?

Have shot the Sig 9 and 40 (P229 and 226) and was not impressed compared to the Kimber 1911. I want to buy a 1911 45 but don't want to shell out $800+ bucks on a dud. Any advice or opinions on the Sig 1911?

[RO73]

Tried out a Kimber 1911 45 and it was great. I recently saw a Sig 1911 45 that is supposed to be the Kimber's competitor. It looks real nice but I have not used it yet. Any opinions on these two?

Have shot the Sig 9 and 40 (P229 and 226) and was not impressed compared to the Kimber 1911. I want to buy a 1911 45 but don't want to shell out $800+ bucks on a dud. Any advice or opinions on the Sig 1911?

disclaimer: This is solely based on personal experience.

I used to have a Kimber and got rid of it. That thing had every problem known to man. It went back to Kimber twice, to a gunsmith once. My gunsmith said the newer Kimbers are not built the way they used to be, and he sees many of them in his shop. This left me with a bad taste. I don't have much experience with the Sig 1911s, but I've shot quite a few that ran flawless. Personally, I would get a Ruger SR1911. Best bang for your buck. Quality series 70 1911, made in the USA, for around $620-$650.
Again, this is just my opinion.

[dorminWS]

Kimber is usually a solid 1911, but in my opinion they are overrated, and I expect it is true that as their production has expanded to take advantage of their popularity, their quality has declined somewhat. I think, based on personal experience, that the Sig STX model 1911 (the only Sig 1911 I have any experience with) is a better pistol than most Kimbers; but maybe not the Kimbers out of their custom shop. But if I had to bet my own money that I'd get a good 1911 out of the box, I'd probably buy the Sig over the Kimber.

RO73 is right about the Ruger SR1911, IMO. Best 1911 for the money; better than a lot of 1911s that cost more money.

[chrismartin]

My Sig Nightmare Carry has better fit and finish than both of my Kimbers.

All three 1911's are very accurate and have been reliable.

The Sig is a bit more picky about my hand loads (tight chamber, had to adjust my seating and crimp a little).

My Pro Carry II needed a lot of out-of-the-box work to smooth it out (rough trigger track, mag catch would trap the magazine, the paint on the aluminum frame sucks, very rough trigger components)

My Kimber Super Match had the same trigger components as the Pro Carry II (not expected for such an expensive gun), very accurate and has run great, however, it's not a $2200+ gun (I didn't pay that for it, I traded a gun for it)

All in all, I would pick just about any Sig 1911 over a Kimber, unless I really wanted an aluminum framed model.
The Sig's at the same price point of a Kimber will generally have more features (front strap checkering, night sights, etc) and you don't really pay any extra for those features like bob tailed grips and the like. Kimber seams to like to charge $200 for each "upgrade".

[casadomi]

Thanks. I am going to look into the Ruger SR1911. Being somewhat of a newbie, I really appreciate the personal opinions and experience.

[trailrunner]

I bought my Kimber about 10 years ago and have had no problems with it. I don't shoot it nearly as much as my other guns though (maybe 3k rounds total or so), so take this advice for what it cost you.

When I bought my Kimber, it seemed like a good choice in the middle of the 1911 price range. I didn't want a low-end, $400 gun, and I didn't want to spend >$2,000 either. I don't recall Ruger or Sig making a 1911 back then (but I could be wrong). If I were to buy a 1911 now, I would definitely consider those two choices.

[MarcSpaz]

I've never owned a Ruger 1911, but I have had several Rugers. They were all very nice and seemed fairly affordable compared to other brands and "like" products. In general, I would say the Ruger could be a good choice based on other models I have owned and what Ruger 1911 owners have said about them.

As far as Sig goes, I am a Sig fan-boy, so my opinions will be a bit biased. LOL

Seriously though, you cannot compare a Sig P229 or 226 to a 1911. The P229 and 226 are combat weapons designed specifically with the US Navy SEALs in mind and what the weapon would be going through. They are going to have much different tolerances because they are expected to work flawlessly in combat regardless if they just came out of the salt water with CLP protected parts or coming out of the sand and protected with Dri-Lube.

Modern 1911's in a quality designed are made with much tighter tolerances, as they are not really intended to be combat weapons. The Sigs specifically have been designed with personal defense and competition shooting in mind. I believe that is the case with all modern 1911's.

Some things to look for when you buy a 1911... and this is "per gun"...

1.) make sure the front bushing is snug. If you can move it without a bushing tool, it will show in the accuracy. It should be snug enough that you can't move it with your fingers and when you rack it back, it should take a little bit of effort to break it loose. Also, even if it has never been fired, a properly fit bushing will likely show wear/rub marks on the barrel from being rack by the builder and in the store.

2.) make sure the slide is snug enough to the frame that the slide can't move side to side while in the firing position. This will also show in the accuracy.

3.) make sure the spacing between the slide and frame are even on both sides. Spacing issues translate to slide float. That can be a dependability issue as well as an accuracy issue.

4.) of course, if you don't want to spend money on a trigger or polish job right away, make sure you hold the hammer back and make a couple of dry pulls to make sure the drag is consistent and there is no roughness to it. Its okay if its heavy, but if there is chatter in the drag or something that feels like a slight snag point, that translates to needed some trigger work for consistent, repeatable trigger action.

Remember, when you dry fire the weapon, Hold the hammer so you know everything you feel is the trigger. Also, if you pull the slide all the way back, walk it forward; don't just let it go or lock it and hit the slide release. Shop owners and CSR's get upset because they don't want the sear damaged. I personally don't see the difference between doing it manually vs. the gas blow-back doing it, but hey... whatever. LOL

[grumpyMSG]

1.) make sure the front bushing is snug. If you can move it without a bushing tool, it will show in the accuracy. It should be snug enough that you can't move it with your fingers and when you rack it back, it should take a little bit of effort to break it loose. Also, even if it has never been fired, a properly fit bushing will likely show wear/rub marks on the barrel from being rack by the builder and in the store.

2.) make sure the slide is snug enough to the frame that the slide can't move side to side while in the firing position. This will also show in the accuracy.

3.) make sure the spacing between the slide and frame are even on both sides. Spacing issues translate to slide float. That can be a dependability issue as well as an accuracy issue.

4.) of course, if you don't want to spend money on a trigger or polish job right away, make sure you hold the hammer back and make a couple of dry pulls to make sure the drag is consistent and there is no roughness to it. Its okay if its heavy, but if there is chatter in the drag or something that feels like a slight snag point, that translates to needed some trigger work for consistent, repeatable trigger action.

Remember, when you dry fire the weapon, Hold the hammer so you know everything you feel is the trigger. Also, if you pull the slide all the way back, walk it forward; don't just let it go or lock it and hit the slide release. Shop owners and CSR's get upset because they don't want the sear damaged. I personally don't see the difference between doing it manually vs. the gas blow-back doing it, but hey... whatever. LOL

You have just given a great lesson in all the things that turned the 1911 from a combat pistol to a temperamental range queen. If you want a very reliable pistol, you need some "slop". John Browning, the genius that he was, did not design the pistol to be built to the tight tolerances that some folks think they need. If you are doing nothing but killing paper and you absolutely need to shoot 3" groups at 25 yards, by all means buy one of the super tight pistols. If a 6" to 8" group and greater reliability are on your wish list look for a looser fit. MarcSpaz was 100% correct about shop owners being worrisome about their merchandise, then again how many people have you seen expect a discount for an item for a little dirt or scratch. It is always wise to ask for permission to dry fire any weapon before you do it and avoid doing anything that will leave a mark or scratch on a rifle or pistol.

A brand I consistently see forgotten when looking at 1911s is Colt, after all they have been manufacturing them for 100 years, you would think they might know a thing or two about the pistol. I would also recommend that you not be afraid of the series 80 or 1991s, they had a few extra pieces added to the design to give it a positive firing pin block safety and they do not have any negative effects on the function of the pistol.

[MarcSpaz]

You have just given a great lesson in all the things that turned the 1911 from a combat pistol to a temperamental range queen. If you want a very reliable pistol, you need some "slop".

LOL... I was trying to spare some folk's feelings while trying to say the same thing when I said you can't compare the reliable combat pistols like the P226 and P229 to a modern 1911 range pistol. I'll take my P226 over a range queen any day.

[Chasbo00]

The 1911 has a great trigger going for it, and that's nice.

[bryanrheem]

I personally love Sig 1911s. Some 1911 purists don't like the external extractor but all the Sig 1911s I've shot have run flawlessly with an excellent trigger. A 1911 nightmare carry is on my dream list.

Colt is a great place to look for sure.

[Hammer]

Don't forget to check out S&W. I have a model E , accurate and can be picked up for $750-800.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[chrismartin]

...A 1911 nightmare carry is on my dream list.

Sig Nightmare Carry, 10-8 flat trigger, Grips by Larry Davidson


The 1911 in the holster is a Dan Wesson CBOB, also with Larry's grips.

I also picked up a threaded barrel for the NM Carry...

[bryanrheem]

chris, those 1911s, those grips!

What is the thread pitch on the NM Carry?

[chrismartin]

What is the thread pitch on the NM Carry?

.578x28 which is the standard for 45ACP 1911's due to the thickness of the barrel.

Here is a picture with the original grips...
Along side a Sig P220, Norinco 1911, and a Kimber Super Match. All barrels are .578x28