Transport concealed rifle: Please discuss

[JustinCase]

In discussion with acquaintance, we were talking about keeping a rifle in the vehicle "at all times", of course it makes sense to be out of sight.

I know with a handgun, I can carry it out of sight, store it out of sight or whatever... loaded... on person, or center console, etc..

However, the concealed permit plainly states HANDGUN.

So, what are the provisions for keeping a rifle in your vehicle?

From what I can read, it should be okay as long as it is not loaded, however I am easily confused.

For those that say store it in the trunk, that is obviously an easy solution... but lets say mini-van or SUV, where there is no trunk, which happens to be the case I am in.

Thanks...
JC

[MarcSpaz]

I would talk to a lawyer about it. Maybe an ADA or some other State's Attorney that may prosecute you.

In my observations as a non-lawyer, I don't see anything in the code of Virginia stating it is illegal to conceal a rifle. They went out of their way to define a concealed weapon in VA Code 18.2-308, but a rifle nor anything matching it's description was included.

The only references to shotguns or rifles is talking about illegal modifications for a shotgun and limits on rifle magazine capacity while in some counties, but only if you don't have a CHP.

[BertMacklin]

§ 15.2-915.2. Regulation of transportation of a loaded rifle or shotgun.

The governing body of any county or city may by ordinance make it unlawful for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within such locality. Any violation of such ordinance shall be punishable by a fine of not more than $100. Conservation police officers, sheriffs and all other law-enforcement officers shall enforce the provisions of this section. No ordinance adopted pursuant to this section shall be enforceable unless the governing body adopting such ordinance so notifies the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries by registered mail prior to May 1 of the year in which such ordinance is to take effect.

The provisions of this section shall not apply to duly authorized law-enforcement officers or military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, nor to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded rifle or shotgun is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business.



<<<<<<<<<<<<Not legal advise but things to consider.

[jdonovan]

In discussion with acquaintance, we were talking about keeping a rifle in the vehicle "at all times", of course it makes sense to be out of sight.

you want a legal opinion, ask a lawyer.

You want a bunch of guesses that you're going to base your freedom, or loss there of upon... ask the internet.

[ProShooter]

In my observations as a non-lawyer, I don't see anything in the code of Virginia stating it is illegal to conceal a rifle. They went out of their way to define a concealed weapon in VA Code 18.2-308, but a rifle nor anything matching it's description was included.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material;


How did you miss that?

[dorminWS]

Unload it and lock it in the trunk. Lock it in a hard case if you have one even if it is in the trunk. If you don't have a trunk, put it in the rearmost cargo area unloaded and locked in a case.

[arlington22201]

In my observations as a non-lawyer, I don't see anything in the code of Virginia stating it is illegal to conceal a rifle. They went out of their way to define a concealed weapon in VA Code 18.2-308, but a rifle nor anything matching it's description was included.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material;


How did you miss that?

Is "about his person" interpreted to mean "in his car?"

[dorminWS]

In my observations as a non-lawyer, I don't see anything in the code of Virginia stating it is illegal to conceal a rifle. They went out of their way to define a concealed weapon in VA Code 18.2-308, but a rifle nor anything matching it's description was included.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material;


How did you miss that?

Is "about his person" interpreted to mean "in his car?"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sometimes; sometimes not. Depends if it is "readily accessible", IIRC. That's why the best thing to do is lock it in a trunk or in a hard case in the rearmost cargo area if no trunk, unloaded. If you do that, I don't expect you'd have trouble IN VIRGINIA.

[MarcSpaz]

The code of VA says transporting a concealed firearm is excusable if it is in your vehicle, unloaded and securely wrapped or stored in a container. I don't think you would have much issue if it is in a case, unloaded and away from the driver either... but like I said, if you're going to make it a daily practice, I would talk to county and/or state prosecutors to get their position on it, as they are going to be the one prosecuting you.

[MarcSpaz]

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material;


How did you miss that?

I guess I misinterpreted that description since it was preceded by "any pistol, revolver" but no reference to other styles. I guess after rereading it, that really does look like that is a good catch-all.

[Remek]

§18.2-308 - Prohibits the carrying of any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or any weapon of like kind by any person hidden from common observance about his person. Any of the enumerated weapons shall be seized and forfeited to the Commonwealth. A weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

Here, the item must be "carried" to be considered hidden from common observation, observable and of deceptive appearance. The core of your question, therefore, goes to if a weapon in a car while you are moving is considered "carried", which indicates "about his person" includes the car. I would say yes, because before the law allowing loaded handguns in the glovebox, only CHP holders could do so.

Therefore, I think this law indicates that you cannot have a loaded rifle in your car.

On the other hand, we have this:

§ 15.2-915.2. This section empowers the governing body of any county or city to, by ordinance, make it unlawful for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within such locality. Any violation of such ordinance shall be punishable by a fine of not more than $100. Game wardens, sheriffs and all other law-enforcement officers shall enforce theprovisions of this section. No ordinance adopted pursuant to this section shall be enforceable unless the governing body adopting such ordinance so notifies the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries by registered mail prior to May 1 of the year in which such ordinance is to take effect. The provisions of this section shall not apply to duly authorized law-enforcement officers or military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, nor to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded rifle or shotgun is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business.

This indicates that state law allows it. It also disagrees with the concealed carry, except under one circumstance: this local ordinance allowance in the law means that open carry of loaded shotguns and rifles is acceptable to the state.

As I have had to fight with others, I will only say at this point, it would be nice to have more light shed on this. I am not intending to do this, but its always good to know the law.

[allingeneral]

In my observations as a non-lawyer, I don't see anything in the code of Virginia stating it is illegal to conceal a rifle. They went out of their way to define a concealed weapon in VA Code 18.2-308, but a rifle nor anything matching it's description was included.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material;


How did you miss that?

Is "about his person" interpreted to mean "in his car?"

I seem to recall reading some case law recently where a non-CHP individual was arrested for glove-box carry, and in that opinion, it was specifically mentioned that in the center console was not "about his person".

I'll have to see if I can dig that up...

[ProShooter]

The code of VA says transporting a concealed firearm is excusable if it is in your vehicle, unloaded and securely wrapped or stored in a container.

Well...not exactly

The securely wrapped exemption only applies during certain "circumstances" -

3. Any person who is at, or going to or from, an established shooting range, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

4. Any regularly enrolled member of a weapons collecting organization who is at, or going to or from, a bona fide weapons exhibition, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

5. Any person carrying such weapons between his place of abode and a place of purchase or repair, provided the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

11. Any enrolled participant of a firearms training course who is at, or going to or from, a training location, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported.

The stored container exemption only allows for handguns -

10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel

[MarcSpaz]

Ah! Roger that... Good catch.

[allingeneral]

Here are some excerpts from hunting ordinances around the Commonwealth. Specifically note the last one that I cited (54) which is almost 1/3 of the counties in the entire Commonwealth.


19. (Southampton County)
It is unlawful to transport, possess or carry a loaded rifle in any vehicle while on the road from October 1 through February 15

23. (Goochland County)
It is unlawful to transport, possess, or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within the county during the time between sunset and sunrise.

34. (Orange County)
It is unlawful to transport or possess a loaded shotgun or rifle in a vehicle on a road during open deer season.


54. (Albemarle, Chesterfield, Culpeper, Danville, Faquier, Fredericksburg, James City, King George, Loudon, Madison, New Kent, Northumberland, Petersburg, Richmond, Roanoke, Surry, Va Beach, Warren, Williamsburg)
It is unlawful to transport, possess, or carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in any vehicle on any public street, road or highway.

This site is linked in the footer of our VGOF website under "Legal Resources" as "Hunting Ordinances"
Read more: http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/re ... nances.pdf

[Remek]

The code of VA says transporting a concealed firearm is excusable if it is in your vehicle, unloaded and securely wrapped or stored in a container.

Well...not exactly

The securely wrapped exemption only applies during certain "circumstances" -

3. Any person who is at, or going to or from, an established shooting range, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

4. Any regularly enrolled member of a weapons collecting organization who is at, or going to or from, a bona fide weapons exhibition, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

5. Any person carrying such weapons between his place of abode and a place of purchase or repair, provided the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

11. Any enrolled participant of a firearms training course who is at, or going to or from, a training location, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported.

The stored container exemption only allows for handguns -

10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel

Excellent point. What is "going to and from" though. It does not say "directly". What if I stop at a gas station? What if I intend to stop at Target for a glove? What if I have to pick up my buddy? It gets muddied. Then we have hunting, FTF sales, etc. Where would these fit?

[MarcSpaz]

Okay, I am going to help put this to bed. I sent the following message to the AG's office.

Representatives of the Office of the AG,
I have several questions about private citizens transporting loaded firearms in a private vehicle and its legality. The Code of Virginia is ambiguous at best and seems to contradict itself on this subject in locations. Since the AG’s office would be prosecuting accused violators of state firearms laws, I would like to know if I submit a request in writing to the AG’s office, if the AG (or staff) would be able and willing to provide clarification on a few questions about the Code as it relates to firearms laws? Please understand, I am not looking for legal advice, only clarification of the existing law as interpreted by the AG.

Thank you,
Marc Spaziano

If the AG's office will except my inquiry, I will submit in writing an official opinion from the AG. I'll let you know how this goes.

I'll be sure to see if a VA State CHP supersedes any county ordinances relating to transportation. This will be a valid question since a CHP override county level open and concealed carry restriction in some cases.

[Remek]

Thanks! Did Obenshain win?

[MarcSpaz]

Not sure. As of two days ago, there were still no official results.

[JustinCase]

It seams to circle back to, if it were unloaded... it "might" be okay 365 days a year (to be on the safe side), however there are multiple considerations to take into account.

I ask here because I thought by chance someone here may already have the answer.

The thread has a good amount of useful information so even if I dont get a "definitive" answer, there is something to learn!

Mind you, Im not about to "exercise that right" without authoritative information.

JC