Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
Wow. Watched American blackout last night and realized one main thing.... My fiance and I have been busy doing things around the house (chopping wood, canning, stocking up on non-perishable food items, putting in a plan of action,etc.) but we do not have a bug out bag in case things get really bad and we have to head out of town and into the wilderness for a few days. Wow; how could I be so blind not to see this sooner?? But anyways; we are now going to work on a BOB while we are still resuming other prepper tasks... I know we already have a decent amount of stuff lying around the house that would make a decent bug out bag for the wilderness; but I went online today looking for a "detailed" list of what should be included in our setting (wooded and mountainous). Is there anywhere I could find this information, or if someone on here could possibly provide a list of what they may carry in their bags I would greatly appreciate it. I did see the one on post on here about the "C's" of survival....
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MarcSpaz
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Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
I wrote this about a year ago... Some folks here may be able to expand on or contribute a different point of view as well. You will want a bit of everything I mention, but remember to keep weight down. If something happens to your vehicle, you've got to carry what you want.
Good luck...
________________________________________________________________
The number one rule of survival is secrecy. Let people underestimate you or think you are doing something other than what you really are. Don't tell everyone what the hell you are doing. You will become a target quick when stuff goes south. Not by other preppers, but by the folks who said you are nuts. Good people can easily become cold killers when they are hungry, cold and their instinctive survival mode kicks in.
First and foremost... you are not going to bug-out or hunker down when the brown fan moment happens. The best survivalist is going to be reading the symptoms and know when to take action. You are going to have to be able to analyze current events to make that determination to take action days ahead of the actual event.
I'll give you a few things to think about. You can do what you want, but everything I am going to give you is based on over a decade of training as an Assistant Emergency Coordinator for local government of which I managed a forward position Comms and Tech Team. I am certified by FEMA and DHS in the NIMS and ICS systems and I know what it takes to be self sustained in forward positions with no modern conveniences or renewable resources for extended periods of time in really crappy situations.
Misc. -
1.) Food is the number one overrated item most preppers overstock on. Everything has a shelf life and eventually goes bad. This stuff has weight and takes up space. Keep weight down, keep size down, and know what the long-term plan is.
On average, a human needs about 2 lbs of food a day and in a variety of formats to stay healthy by getting the proper levels of carbs, protein, vitamins and minerals. That means a family of 4 needs 240 lbs of food to be comfortable and well nourished for a month. That is almost impossible to store in a portable format and keep fresh.
High carb and high cal meals like MRE's are great short term, but still can limit mobility. Wherever you are going to be, you need to plan a rotating stock and have a good plan for renewable sources in nature if you are in an extended self sustained engagement.
Hunting and trapping is a good means to get fresh meat, but you need training and experience. Animals can't read and baiting laws won't count for poop, so use pressure traps and mark them well so you can easily find unsprung traps and so innocent people don't get hurt. Making your own pressure traps are easy if you don't want to buy some. There are tons of books about it. Start reading and practicing.
2.) Forget about power and non-renewable sources of energy like petroleum liquids, LPG, and natural gas. These items are awesome to keep life normal at home for a few days while your community recovers from a storm. However, if the area you live in becomes a battleground, you won’t have it for long. Things like a well lit house at night and running generators will draw attention of your enemies.
3.) Water above all else is critical. You can live for close to 10 days with no food whatsoever. You will die of thirst much quicker and can be completely immobile after only a couple of hours of dehydration.
The average person needs 3 gallons of potable water per day. Water ages in containers and eventually is not consumable. My recommendation is to rotate several cases of water per person so you have a few days of fresh bottled water. However, you need to be aware of a clean (not muddy) renewable water source within walking distance of where you are. Full size stony streams work best. Ground water will likely be worthless because it can get contaminated quickly and stay that way for a long time.
4.) Medicine is always overlooked. Make sure you have a good supply of your maintenance meds, Tylenol, Motrin, Benadryl, aspirin, antacids, Midol, etc... Bandages and basic first-aid supplies are going to be missed if you have a headache, develop a fever or get injured.
Don't forget things like blankets, clothes, socks, underwear, deodorant, tooth brush and tooth paste, soap and shampoo and other items that make life comfortable. You will be surprised just how much you will hate being in the same clothes for a month without bathing. You won’t be too popular either.
5.) As already mentioned, fire is critical. It provides heat, the ability to cook food, sterilize water, provide light and security. Without fire, you are basically screwed in just a few days, unless its winter, then you may not make it through the night.
6.) Self defense is a must. Guns are great, but ammo is heavy and not a renewable source. If you have guns, take tactical defense classes. Also, learn other tactics. Get training in a combination of fighting styles such as boxing, tae kwon do and jujitsu. Learn how to fight with knifes. Become proficient with a bow and arrow. Learn weaknesses and strengths of the human body to become more efficient at stopping your enemy and defending yourself.
You going to hunker down? Along with the above...
1.) Food options, if you plan on staying home, are much better. Keep in mind that you may get raided by people who did not prepare. Try not to keep everything in one place. Multiple food storage locations, including off the immediate location of the structure, will help ensure you will still have food if you do get raided.
2.) If you have the option, buy a home near woods where there is a natural water right of way. This can be a good, unlimited source of fresh water.
3.) Have a plan with your neighbors. There is strength in numbers. If they plan on staying too, team up to increase your success rate. Give them recommendations on preparing their own homes so they are a self sufficient part of the team.
4.) Security is important when you are stationary. Keep in mind most homes are wooden structures. There is little to no defense from bullets, fire, smoke, etc. You can only fortify your residence so much based on the materials. Have an emergency bug-out plan ready in case you are overrun.
Forget about underground bunkers. Unless it is 100% self sufficient with re-breathers, a means of cleaning gray and black water and has a means of dealing with solid waste, you are better off in your house. Fresh air vents, limited supplies and limited exits make it easy to smoke you out or make it your final resting place.
You gonna bug out? Along with the above...
1.) Where are you going? Do you know people where you are headed or are you walking (driving) into a situation where the locals are going to consider you hostile. Plan ahead on where you are going. Where are you staying once you get where you are going? Have several routes planned in the event that roads and bridges are gone. Buy some maps... you will need them.
Again, make sure wherever you are going is easily and strategically defendable if needed.
2.) Make sure you have an off-road capable vehicle. Have one or two full size spare tires and enough room for all of your bug-out supplies. Have enough fuel to get where you are going. Once you're out, it may be somewhat permanent. Don't count on your vehicle once you get where you are going. Preserve enough fuel to get back to a fueling station in town so you can get home once the BS is over... if there is a home left to get to.
3.) There is still strength in numbers, even on the move or in a bug-out situation. Having friends and family that are as prepared and capable as you are will improve success. Work together to get the plans laid out, where to meet, where you are going, how to communicate, etc.
This is just a few things. I could write forever. Hopefully this will give those interested a starting point.
Good luck...
________________________________________________________________
The number one rule of survival is secrecy. Let people underestimate you or think you are doing something other than what you really are. Don't tell everyone what the hell you are doing. You will become a target quick when stuff goes south. Not by other preppers, but by the folks who said you are nuts. Good people can easily become cold killers when they are hungry, cold and their instinctive survival mode kicks in.
First and foremost... you are not going to bug-out or hunker down when the brown fan moment happens. The best survivalist is going to be reading the symptoms and know when to take action. You are going to have to be able to analyze current events to make that determination to take action days ahead of the actual event.
I'll give you a few things to think about. You can do what you want, but everything I am going to give you is based on over a decade of training as an Assistant Emergency Coordinator for local government of which I managed a forward position Comms and Tech Team. I am certified by FEMA and DHS in the NIMS and ICS systems and I know what it takes to be self sustained in forward positions with no modern conveniences or renewable resources for extended periods of time in really crappy situations.
Misc. -
1.) Food is the number one overrated item most preppers overstock on. Everything has a shelf life and eventually goes bad. This stuff has weight and takes up space. Keep weight down, keep size down, and know what the long-term plan is.
On average, a human needs about 2 lbs of food a day and in a variety of formats to stay healthy by getting the proper levels of carbs, protein, vitamins and minerals. That means a family of 4 needs 240 lbs of food to be comfortable and well nourished for a month. That is almost impossible to store in a portable format and keep fresh.
High carb and high cal meals like MRE's are great short term, but still can limit mobility. Wherever you are going to be, you need to plan a rotating stock and have a good plan for renewable sources in nature if you are in an extended self sustained engagement.
Hunting and trapping is a good means to get fresh meat, but you need training and experience. Animals can't read and baiting laws won't count for poop, so use pressure traps and mark them well so you can easily find unsprung traps and so innocent people don't get hurt. Making your own pressure traps are easy if you don't want to buy some. There are tons of books about it. Start reading and practicing.
2.) Forget about power and non-renewable sources of energy like petroleum liquids, LPG, and natural gas. These items are awesome to keep life normal at home for a few days while your community recovers from a storm. However, if the area you live in becomes a battleground, you won’t have it for long. Things like a well lit house at night and running generators will draw attention of your enemies.
3.) Water above all else is critical. You can live for close to 10 days with no food whatsoever. You will die of thirst much quicker and can be completely immobile after only a couple of hours of dehydration.
The average person needs 3 gallons of potable water per day. Water ages in containers and eventually is not consumable. My recommendation is to rotate several cases of water per person so you have a few days of fresh bottled water. However, you need to be aware of a clean (not muddy) renewable water source within walking distance of where you are. Full size stony streams work best. Ground water will likely be worthless because it can get contaminated quickly and stay that way for a long time.
4.) Medicine is always overlooked. Make sure you have a good supply of your maintenance meds, Tylenol, Motrin, Benadryl, aspirin, antacids, Midol, etc... Bandages and basic first-aid supplies are going to be missed if you have a headache, develop a fever or get injured.
Don't forget things like blankets, clothes, socks, underwear, deodorant, tooth brush and tooth paste, soap and shampoo and other items that make life comfortable. You will be surprised just how much you will hate being in the same clothes for a month without bathing. You won’t be too popular either.
5.) As already mentioned, fire is critical. It provides heat, the ability to cook food, sterilize water, provide light and security. Without fire, you are basically screwed in just a few days, unless its winter, then you may not make it through the night.
6.) Self defense is a must. Guns are great, but ammo is heavy and not a renewable source. If you have guns, take tactical defense classes. Also, learn other tactics. Get training in a combination of fighting styles such as boxing, tae kwon do and jujitsu. Learn how to fight with knifes. Become proficient with a bow and arrow. Learn weaknesses and strengths of the human body to become more efficient at stopping your enemy and defending yourself.
You going to hunker down? Along with the above...
1.) Food options, if you plan on staying home, are much better. Keep in mind that you may get raided by people who did not prepare. Try not to keep everything in one place. Multiple food storage locations, including off the immediate location of the structure, will help ensure you will still have food if you do get raided.
2.) If you have the option, buy a home near woods where there is a natural water right of way. This can be a good, unlimited source of fresh water.
3.) Have a plan with your neighbors. There is strength in numbers. If they plan on staying too, team up to increase your success rate. Give them recommendations on preparing their own homes so they are a self sufficient part of the team.
4.) Security is important when you are stationary. Keep in mind most homes are wooden structures. There is little to no defense from bullets, fire, smoke, etc. You can only fortify your residence so much based on the materials. Have an emergency bug-out plan ready in case you are overrun.
Forget about underground bunkers. Unless it is 100% self sufficient with re-breathers, a means of cleaning gray and black water and has a means of dealing with solid waste, you are better off in your house. Fresh air vents, limited supplies and limited exits make it easy to smoke you out or make it your final resting place.
You gonna bug out? Along with the above...
1.) Where are you going? Do you know people where you are headed or are you walking (driving) into a situation where the locals are going to consider you hostile. Plan ahead on where you are going. Where are you staying once you get where you are going? Have several routes planned in the event that roads and bridges are gone. Buy some maps... you will need them.
Again, make sure wherever you are going is easily and strategically defendable if needed.
2.) Make sure you have an off-road capable vehicle. Have one or two full size spare tires and enough room for all of your bug-out supplies. Have enough fuel to get where you are going. Once you're out, it may be somewhat permanent. Don't count on your vehicle once you get where you are going. Preserve enough fuel to get back to a fueling station in town so you can get home once the BS is over... if there is a home left to get to.
3.) There is still strength in numbers, even on the move or in a bug-out situation. Having friends and family that are as prepared and capable as you are will improve success. Work together to get the plans laid out, where to meet, where you are going, how to communicate, etc.
This is just a few things. I could write forever. Hopefully this will give those interested a starting point.
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Remek
- VGOF Silver Supporter
- Posts: 1065
- Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 13:59:57
- Location: Fredericksburg, or that is the nearest recognizable locale
Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
^^^ excellent points. I;ve thought them through many times, and most of this is really common sense, but having them flat-out spoon fed makes it easy to classify and organize the knowledge in your mind quickly.
Where do you go from something like this to where you want to be is simply a matter of preference. (In other words, you are on your own, and nothing will be guaranteed, welcome to freedom!) So what have I determined? I have below sorted a few thoughts:
When I've thought about it, the various forms of prepping are conflicting. You need a lot of supplies, but you need to be mobile; you need to keep quiet what you are doing, but you need strength in numbers; you need to be defensible, but you need to be ready to bug out as quickly as possible; you need to have gas to get where you are going, but you need to take supplies too and there is no guarantee where you will go is going to be safe at all.
Given that, I've worked up two general plans that coexist fairly well, with a final emergency plan that is a coin flip, but gives me and mine a chance to survive.
I recommend a first plan to stay put and hunker down (except the urban folks: you guys get the hell out of dodge and go live with a relative in the country side (the mobs of people out of touch with the land just invites problems, along with DHS type solutions!) -- bring stocks of food and vitamins and clothes, and firearms and fishing equipment to earn your keep). I recommend you ignore the fact that food and water goes bad, and stock up. Mostly,subsistence food. Enough to keep you going, but not living high off the hog. Rice, beans, fruit cans, dried meats, and water water water. Put a firepit in your yard, a good one with the ability to cover it to keep heat in. Then stock to anticipate lazy-assed neighbors. I cannot discuss this crap with them because I don't want people to know, but when SHTF, I NEED to make them my friends, and have them pay me back in kind. Once it happens (and I firmly believe it will happen), you've got to work in groups to secure your little area of the neighborhood unless you have extended family in the house, but that fails if determined mobs come to your house. Depending on distances, you might have to agree to all occupy a single abode. This is really the only way to stay defendable, like it or not. Offering to share food, in exchange for patrolling duty and working together to keep it all running is simply the best thing to do. You might even (*ACK*) have to arm them so they can help defend the area/hunt local game. I'd have a few firearms for just such a purpose.
Feigning that situation working out, I'd have a bug out plan. Keep 5-gallon jugs of gas, enough to fill your bug-out car (4x4 is what you want) hopefully twice, and turn them over regularly, filling your cars/boats/lawn mowers/etc., and refill the jugs at the gas station. This gas is sacred, keep it full, and turn it over, and do not use to run generators/etc if SHTF. Its your lifeline to the next stage of survival.
When the first layer of survival (working with neighbors) fails, its time to bug out to another house of family/friend further out in isolated country if it is possible. I'd have someone who is not necessarily a prepper, but a prepper is very helpful, to bug out to. Pack your supplies, and go to them. Preferably this is someone who is fairly remote, or more remote than you. Your isolation is being used in this situation to limit the exposure to bad guys. Hopefully this guy has water access and is out far enough to find game, because you wont be able to take many food stocks with you. Make sure you bring the extra tank full of gas with you, or have it at his/her house. This is so you all can bug out to the mountains and hope you find a place that is safe.
This is a general idea of what to do. There are many decisions within decisions, and goes against the "don't come to me for help" motto elsewhere, but I'd venture to say many of us (including me) do not have a lot of local friends, and our friendships are at a distance. However, remember, numbers are very important for protection, and if you have a family, you know just how important protection can be to you.
Where do you go from something like this to where you want to be is simply a matter of preference. (In other words, you are on your own, and nothing will be guaranteed, welcome to freedom!) So what have I determined? I have below sorted a few thoughts:
When I've thought about it, the various forms of prepping are conflicting. You need a lot of supplies, but you need to be mobile; you need to keep quiet what you are doing, but you need strength in numbers; you need to be defensible, but you need to be ready to bug out as quickly as possible; you need to have gas to get where you are going, but you need to take supplies too and there is no guarantee where you will go is going to be safe at all.
Given that, I've worked up two general plans that coexist fairly well, with a final emergency plan that is a coin flip, but gives me and mine a chance to survive.
I recommend a first plan to stay put and hunker down (except the urban folks: you guys get the hell out of dodge and go live with a relative in the country side (the mobs of people out of touch with the land just invites problems, along with DHS type solutions!) -- bring stocks of food and vitamins and clothes, and firearms and fishing equipment to earn your keep). I recommend you ignore the fact that food and water goes bad, and stock up. Mostly,subsistence food. Enough to keep you going, but not living high off the hog. Rice, beans, fruit cans, dried meats, and water water water. Put a firepit in your yard, a good one with the ability to cover it to keep heat in. Then stock to anticipate lazy-assed neighbors. I cannot discuss this crap with them because I don't want people to know, but when SHTF, I NEED to make them my friends, and have them pay me back in kind. Once it happens (and I firmly believe it will happen), you've got to work in groups to secure your little area of the neighborhood unless you have extended family in the house, but that fails if determined mobs come to your house. Depending on distances, you might have to agree to all occupy a single abode. This is really the only way to stay defendable, like it or not. Offering to share food, in exchange for patrolling duty and working together to keep it all running is simply the best thing to do. You might even (*ACK*) have to arm them so they can help defend the area/hunt local game. I'd have a few firearms for just such a purpose.
Feigning that situation working out, I'd have a bug out plan. Keep 5-gallon jugs of gas, enough to fill your bug-out car (4x4 is what you want) hopefully twice, and turn them over regularly, filling your cars/boats/lawn mowers/etc., and refill the jugs at the gas station. This gas is sacred, keep it full, and turn it over, and do not use to run generators/etc if SHTF. Its your lifeline to the next stage of survival.
When the first layer of survival (working with neighbors) fails, its time to bug out to another house of family/friend further out in isolated country if it is possible. I'd have someone who is not necessarily a prepper, but a prepper is very helpful, to bug out to. Pack your supplies, and go to them. Preferably this is someone who is fairly remote, or more remote than you. Your isolation is being used in this situation to limit the exposure to bad guys. Hopefully this guy has water access and is out far enough to find game, because you wont be able to take many food stocks with you. Make sure you bring the extra tank full of gas with you, or have it at his/her house. This is so you all can bug out to the mountains and hope you find a place that is safe.
This is a general idea of what to do. There are many decisions within decisions, and goes against the "don't come to me for help" motto elsewhere, but I'd venture to say many of us (including me) do not have a lot of local friends, and our friendships are at a distance. However, remember, numbers are very important for protection, and if you have a family, you know just how important protection can be to you.
"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson
Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
As someone else mentioned, aBOB implies there is somewhere else that is a better place that you want to BO to, and stand a reasonable chance of being able to get there. If not you're probably better off to hunker down where you are.
If you've got a nebulous I'm going to go hide in the woods for a few days/weeks, you're likely to find the local woods very crowded with others with the same idea.
Also the foraging for game is, something that I think that once we have a few million people on the move, and empty stores, there isn't going to be a catchable squirrel, rabbit, or deer after day 30 anywhere near where the people are out roaming. Perhaps way out in the far western commuting belt, but if all of the DC area decides its time to leave, you might not find a game animal till you get to WV.
If you've got a nebulous I'm going to go hide in the woods for a few days/weeks, you're likely to find the local woods very crowded with others with the same idea.
Also the foraging for game is, something that I think that once we have a few million people on the move, and empty stores, there isn't going to be a catchable squirrel, rabbit, or deer after day 30 anywhere near where the people are out roaming. Perhaps way out in the far western commuting belt, but if all of the DC area decides its time to leave, you might not find a game animal till you get to WV.
Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
About hunting when SHTF, this guy have some points:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwZwBd6aeYY
You're much better with the bag of beans or rice from Costco. And cans of ham are quite cheap here in US. About 2-3 times cheaper than in Europe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwZwBd6aeYY
You're much better with the bag of beans or rice from Costco. And cans of ham are quite cheap here in US. About 2-3 times cheaper than in Europe.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party - Mao Tse Tung
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Remek
- VGOF Silver Supporter
- Posts: 1065
- Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 13:59:57
- Location: Fredericksburg, or that is the nearest recognizable locale
Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
^^^ more good reasons to bug-in. I agree also, you have to have a reasonable plan to assure you arrive at any backup location, and nebulous "hide in the woods" scenarios are begging for trouble. Just running for the mountains is not a good idea, have a place to go to in the mountains, or at least a general area where you think its fairly "safe" to drop in.
"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson
Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
Wow; all very good points.... just to let you guys know; I live in the extreme western part of Virginia. You can literally walk out my door and make a right.. drive for about 10 minutes over the mountain, and you are into West Virginia. The area I am in is West of the GW And Jefferson Nat. Forrest, and there are many many acres of woods around me (as well as many acres of cattle farms.... lol.) and I do have a few areas in mind to bug out to if need be. As a matter of fact; a few times that I have gone out hunting this year; I have also used it as a means to "scout out" locations.... especially in a strategic point of view. I have personally come across a decent "lookout" type of area that on top of a nice piece of flatland and allows you to see for at least 150 - 200 yards in 3 of 4 directions (the only direction you can not clearly see in is from behind(densely wooded trails leading up to lookout).
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dorminWS
- VGOF Platinum Supporter
- Posts: 7163
- Joined: Mon, 06 Dec 2010 15:00:41
- Location: extreme SW VA
Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Remek wrote:^^^ more good reasons to bug-in. I agree also, you have to have a reasonable plan to assure you arrive at any backup location, and nebulous "hide in the woods" scenarios are begging for trouble. Just running for the mountains is not a good idea, have a place to go to in the mountains, or at least a general area where you think its fairly "safe" to drop in.
As a denizen of the mountains, it occurs to me that if the SHTF, and a bunch of folks come streaming into these mountains that we regard as our'n trying to grab up all the groceries and shoot and eat the game that we've been scouting, building stands for and feeding all year long, and if it appears that game is going to be the only meat on the table for the foreseeable future, you flatlander Johnny-come-latelys might wind up being the hunted rather than the hunters. "Dispute resolution" could turn pretty brutal when you're 2 hours off the hardtop into the woods and everybody knows the SHTF. You need to be very careful that you do not bug out to and count on hunting a place that some native has been scouting and hunting for years while you were in the big city chasing the bright lights and the big money. You may be seen the same way you look at the EBT-deprived looter at the WalMart that you laid down suppressing fire at and fled to the mountains to get away from. Even folks you were on speaking terms with on your occasional visits "before the fall" may change their minds about you. Might be worth considering while you ponder your elaborate plans for weathering the apocalypse.
"The Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference." -Thomas Jefferson
Gun-crazy? Me? I'd say the gun-crazy ones are the ones that don’t HAVE one.
Gun-crazy? Me? I'd say the gun-crazy ones are the ones that don’t HAVE one.
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Remek
- VGOF Silver Supporter
- Posts: 1065
- Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 13:59:57
- Location: Fredericksburg, or that is the nearest recognizable locale
Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
If that's directed at me, thanks, I'll be sure to shoot first.
However, my plans are still better than nebulous to begin with.
When I flip a coin, I make sure there's no tails.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
However, my plans are still better than nebulous to begin with.
When I flip a coin, I make sure there's no tails.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson
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MarcSpaz
- VGOF Platinum Supporter
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- Joined: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:55:20
- Location: Location: Location:
Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
This is what I was thinking myself...dorminWS wrote:...you flatlander Johnny-come-latelys might wind up being the hunted rather than the hunters.
Here is the problem with those theories of animals being hunted into extinction or even scarcity... the assumption that either a large part of the population or the entire population is going to flood into the wilderness and become a hunter/gatherer. There is also an assumption that people will be able to make it out to an area to hunt, have the tools and resources to hunt.
I have spent more than a decade responding to SHTF on a large regional scale. Reality is I have witnessed first hand that most people DO NOT want to leave the area they consider home regardless of how bad it gets; even if it means their death. People in the cities are less tied to the "community", but overall still have the same mindset.
I have also seen firsthand that the majority of Americans do not have basic survival skills. Take the average person in America. Tell them they can have whatever they can carry as long as it doesn't run on batteries or electricity, drop them off in the woods 100 miles away from anything and tell them to hike into any town. It is likely that even only 100 mile out, we will never see that person again, ever.
Shoot, even with weeks of notification, help from the Red Cross, FEMA, and the military before during and after natural disasters, a large amount of people still die in SHTF situations. I think you guys are giving people way more credit then they deserve; especially in a catastrophic collapse or disaster at a national level leading to zero external support.
Something else to consider... 100% of the US population lives in 4.4% of the total square miles of the low 48 continental states. There is 3.1 million square miles of US territory. That is a lot of room for survivors to spread out.
Based on all of the above, if civilization in the North American continent really truly completely falls apart and there is total anarchy on a national scale, it is my humble opinion that the human population would thin out to natures sustainable levels long before we hunt ever major species into extinction.
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Remek
- VGOF Silver Supporter
- Posts: 1065
- Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 13:59:57
- Location: Fredericksburg, or that is the nearest recognizable locale
Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
^^^ I've had much the same thoughts. Its the same thought as we had in scouts even as kids.
They say, prep up for being dropped off miles from home. You need to make it home, and you can take 10 things.
Then, when they prepped, you tell them they are being dropped off in the inner city.
It just makes sense, city people cannot really leave the city for the most part, and visa-versa.
They say, prep up for being dropped off miles from home. You need to make it home, and you can take 10 things.
Then, when they prepped, you tell them they are being dropped off in the inner city.
It just makes sense, city people cannot really leave the city for the most part, and visa-versa.
"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson
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MarcSpaz
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Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
Here's another thing. Right now everything is fine in the world and the free market is alive and well. I am willing to bet anything I own that the people perpetuating the opinion that the lands are going to get hunted clean and quickly are either people who have a direct relationship with a company pandering to preppers for profit or have fallen for the BS being put out there by the people earning a living off selling that stuff to us.
Don't get me wrong, prepackage food and water is great sort term (few days to a year), but you need a replenishable supply in a total collapse. And lets face it... we need to prep for 3 situations. Short term local/regional, long term local/regional, and total collapse of the free world (flat-out civil war, pandemic, enemy invasion, etc.). The later in that list, the less likely it is to occur, but has the greatest impact on our life.
Will everyone live? No. Will people starve to death? Yes, will violence take the lives of many? Of course; but when would that be different then any other day in America?
Human kind lived off the land without the modern commercial free market up until a couple hundred years ago. We can do it again if needed.
Don't get me wrong, prepackage food and water is great sort term (few days to a year), but you need a replenishable supply in a total collapse. And lets face it... we need to prep for 3 situations. Short term local/regional, long term local/regional, and total collapse of the free world (flat-out civil war, pandemic, enemy invasion, etc.). The later in that list, the less likely it is to occur, but has the greatest impact on our life.
Will everyone live? No. Will people starve to death? Yes, will violence take the lives of many? Of course; but when would that be different then any other day in America?
Human kind lived off the land without the modern commercial free market up until a couple hundred years ago. We can do it again if needed.
Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
but not at this density, not even close.MarcSpaz wrote: Human kind lived off the land without the modern commercial free market up until a couple hundred years ago. We can do it again if needed.
There will have to be alot of reduction in demand for food before the balance would be restored.
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MarcSpaz
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Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
I will agree with that for sure.
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Remek
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Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
In reality, although I am prepared I do not see these nightmare scenerios happening, not like the books I've read who talk of people who have wet dreams of the world disappearing and living alone in the wilderness like a John Wayne movie.
I am of the opinion SHTF will happen, but I also am pretty sure DHS is planning to make sure food and water reach the cities. Just like EBT/WIC, passification will stop their egress before long.
I am also pretty sure DHS will force the power system to operate. So no problems there.
I am also pretty sure the corridors of commerce will be well protected.
What I see happening though is the relocation of everyone who owns a mortgage and loses their job to those empty internment camps (again, no problem for me, but many will be unhappy).
The main problem I see for me is more along the price of food/supplies and the poorer people in the suburban area that borders me coming to take my stocks and things for bartering. Here is where I think prepping should start.
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I am of the opinion SHTF will happen, but I also am pretty sure DHS is planning to make sure food and water reach the cities. Just like EBT/WIC, passification will stop their egress before long.
I am also pretty sure DHS will force the power system to operate. So no problems there.
I am also pretty sure the corridors of commerce will be well protected.
What I see happening though is the relocation of everyone who owns a mortgage and loses their job to those empty internment camps (again, no problem for me, but many will be unhappy).
The main problem I see for me is more along the price of food/supplies and the poorer people in the suburban area that borders me coming to take my stocks and things for bartering. Here is where I think prepping should start.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson
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MarcSpaz
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Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
^^^ Yea, I have to say, it would be completely naive to say that thing like civil war, pandemic, enemy invasion would never happen in the US. Especially since it happens around the world every day.
With that said I do agree that the more likely things to prepare for are things like the LA Riots, Katrina, Sandy, the northeast American blackout of 2003 and so on. I would think events at that level could not really justify heading to the woods to hunt and forage. Those are the kind of events that you stock generators, gas, water, food, and ammo to protect your home and family.
With that said I do agree that the more likely things to prepare for are things like the LA Riots, Katrina, Sandy, the northeast American blackout of 2003 and so on. I would think events at that level could not really justify heading to the woods to hunt and forage. Those are the kind of events that you stock generators, gas, water, food, and ammo to protect your home and family.
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SHMIV
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Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
Something else to keep in mind; gasoline has a shelf life of about 30 days. That includes the time spent in the storage tanks at the station before you buy it.
I've considered experimenting with methane fuel. I reckon that I will have a source of that as long as I'm breathing.
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I've considered experimenting with methane fuel. I reckon that I will have a source of that as long as I'm breathing.
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"Send lawyers, guns, and money; the $#!t has hit the fan!" - Warren Zevon
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Remek
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Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
I am not the only insomniac.
To gas, Sta-Bil can extend that, as well as using non-ethanol gas of high octane.
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To gas, Sta-Bil can extend that, as well as using non-ethanol gas of high octane.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson
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SHMIV
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- Location: Where ever I go, there I am.
Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
Lol, Remek; I recently finished my drive shift. What's your excuse?
I'm going to have to re-research Sta-bil. Seems I had a reason to distrust that product, but I can't recall why. Where does one find gas without ethinol, these days?
I should probably consult my best friends father in law about fuel related topics. He's spent his entire career in the oil business; he'd likely have some useful insight.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
I'm going to have to re-research Sta-bil. Seems I had a reason to distrust that product, but I can't recall why. Where does one find gas without ethinol, these days?
I should probably consult my best friends father in law about fuel related topics. He's spent his entire career in the oil business; he'd likely have some useful insight.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
"Send lawyers, guns, and money; the $#!t has hit the fan!" - Warren Zevon
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MarcSpaz
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Re: Bug out bag....... List of contents and advice??
LOL... Yea, I hardly ever sleep at night. Most of the time I am on here late, I'm actually building servers or something for a customer and killing time waiting for the servers to execute steps.
And yes, Sta-Bil is awesome. I just checked out my tractor with a non-vented plastic fuel tank. It's been parked for 3 years with Sta-bil in the tank. Popped the cap and it stilled smelled fresh (not like varnish) Put a fresh battery in it and it fired right up.
I just re-treated the gas, which the recommend every 2 years for the more expensive formula, and parked that sucker again. Just remember to run your engine for a few minutes so the Sta-bil protect that gas everywhere in the fuels system.
And yes, Sta-Bil is awesome. I just checked out my tractor with a non-vented plastic fuel tank. It's been parked for 3 years with Sta-bil in the tank. Popped the cap and it stilled smelled fresh (not like varnish) Put a fresh battery in it and it fired right up.
I just re-treated the gas, which the recommend every 2 years for the more expensive formula, and parked that sucker again. Just remember to run your engine for a few minutes so the Sta-bil protect that gas everywhere in the fuels system.