Tea Party Splitting From GOP?

[ShotgunBlast]

During the government "shutdown", I've been hearing quite a bit lately that the TP might end up splitting from the GOP. Palin and Hannity talking a few nights ago about third parties. CNN now talking about this. I get the feeling more and more conservatives are learning as the libertarians did years ago that the party that freed the slaves now just wants to be "liberal lite" and conservatives don't have the strength in numbers to change the course of the party. TP had a big win in 2010, but lost 20% of their seats just two years later. A lot of candidates that they ran in 2012 ended up losing, and they had no influence in the presidential candidate selection. The number of TP groups have been cut by 40% in just a few years. There is no centralized office to keep the wheels greased and the campaign drums going.

It seems TP supporters are tired of moderate GOP members, and moderate GOP members are tired of TP supporters, to the point of bashing each other all over the media which just makes the Republican party as a whole look bad. Moderate GOP members win a lot of independents, but without the TP base they can't win elections. TP supporters will come out and vote for conservative candidates, but they can't seem to get enough independents to get the win.

What do you think?

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-gloria- ... tea-party/

[SHMIV]

I think that the Libertarians should come over to the Republican party. The "moderate" Republicans can go back to the Democrat party, where they belong and try to take it back from the Socialists. The Socialists can go to Russia, where their politics will be welcome.

The Tea Party Conservatives need to stay right where they are. They ARE Republicans. They need to continue fighting for the conservation of their party so that they are better able to fight for the conservation of our Republic.

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[ratherfish]

We all need to give the boot to the big government republican establishment including the Bush/Rove RINO remnants. Organize and primary their azzes.

If Repubics can't get back to the basics of conservatism they'll never gain power enough to take the country back again. Their power is in conservatism not the attractive pablum Rove sells.

It's an uphill battle either way but anything beats loosing the country to socialists and killing liberty in our generation.

[ShotgunBlast]

I think that the Libertarians should come over to the Republican party. The "moderate" Republicans can go back to the Democrat party, where they belong and try to take it back from the Socialists. The Socialists can go to Russia, where their politics will be welcome.

I'm sorry, I just don't see that happening. Libertarians have been shooed away enough by the GOP. The GOP only wants their votes, not their principles. I think the conservatives are gonna have to fight this battle themselves. And what moderate Republican in a red state is going to change parties to Democrats? lol That'll never happen either.


As a follow-up question for everyone, I'm hearing two strategies in regards to the Republican party. People like Glenn Beck want to continue down the primary road and keep challenging Republicans with more conservative candidates so that the GOP overall is more conservative. Ann Coulter thinks that Republicans should stop trying to fight each other through primaries and concentrate on taking Democrat seats to grow the party overall, even if the party still resembles "liberal lite". What say you?

[Remek]

I say let the rinos run against the dems in liberal states, then replace them with conservatives in all seats they occupy.

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[SHMIV]

Libertarians are shooed off by "moderate Republicans", which, for all intents and purposes, are classic Democrats. It would also help if Libertarians would stop whining about legalizing pot while the country is being overtaken by Socialists. I don't disagree with the basic view point, it's just not a top priority right now.

I doubt that any " moderate Republican" will take it upon himself to leave the GOP. At least, not in it's current state.

What I stated was merely a way to regain control of the country. But, chances of it happening are slim. I just don't see any chance of a 3rd party gaining any meaningful traction, ever. And certainly not in enough time to fix what has been broken. If there was ever a chance at that, the Democrat party would still be a decent party because the Socialists would not have seen fit to take it over.

As to the Beck and Coulter strategies, I have to research those before commenting.

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[Kreutz]

The Atlantic had a good article on this very subject recently

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... op/280637/

The Conservative War on the GOP

What was once an uneasy alliance between Tea Partiers and Republican loyalists is increasingly marked by hostility—and many on the right now want a divorce.

“Conservatives are either going to split [from the GOP] or stay home,” Erickson, the influential editor of RedState.com and a Fox News contributor, told me. “They’ll first expend energy in primaries, but if unsuccessful, they’ll bolt.”

Kind of a long read but has a lot of insight from a few viewpoints.

[dorminWS]

IMO both the Tea Party and Libertarians will have more chance of actually influencing events as fractious but reasonably cooperative factions of the republican party than as 3rd party splinter groups. They are the RINO's best chance to assemble the votes to prevail against the Obamunists on many issues. The key would be (as SHMIV has indicated) for all of them - the RINOs, the Tea Party, and the Libertarians to put aside the issues they disagree on and work to further the goals they share; the primary one of which is the ultra-urgent issue of contracting government and curbing deficit spending. This is an eminent threat to the Republic. There will be plenty of time to argue about how to drain the swamp (social and extreme personal autonomy issues, for instance) AFTER they are no longer azzhole deep in alligators.

[Taggure]

IMO both the Tea Party and Libertarians will have more chance of actually influencing events as fractious but reasonably cooperative factions of the republican party than as 3rd party splinter groups. They are the RINO's best chance to assemble the votes to prevail against the Obamunists on many issues. The key would be (as SHMIV has indicated) for all of them - the RINOs, the Tea Party, and the Libertarians to put aside the issues they disagree on and work to further the goals they share; the primary one of which is the ultra-urgent issue of contracting government and curbing deficit spending. This is an eminent threat to the Republic. There will be plenty of time to argue about how to drain the swamp (social and extreme personal autonomy issues, for instance) AFTER they are no longer azzhole deep in alligators.

Can't Agree More

[ratherfish]

You have a good point, but it appears the RINO's won't play and they play the Saul Alinsky game against both conservatives and libertarians.

Rove raises a LOT of anti-conservative money.

I'm sick and tired of these big government RINOS!

Another RINO candidate for president and the party's done.

[ShotgunBlast]

FreedomWorks CEO Matt Kibbe Sees ‘Real Possibility’ of Dissolution of the GOP

“Grassroots activists have an ability to self-organize, to fund candidates that they’re more interested in, going right around the Republican National Committee and the Senatorial Committee,” he added. “That’s the new reality. Everything’s more democratized and Republican should come to terms with that.”

“They still want to control things form the top down, and if they do that there will absolutely be a split,” Kibbe warned. “But my prediction would be that we take over the Republican Party, and they go the way of the Whigs.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/freedomworks ... f-the-gop/

[Kreutz]

A viable third party (even if severely limited in geography) would be a welcome breath of fresh air no matter what.

[ratherfish]

We have many "third parties". If a third party is to be it must be effective. After that what happens? The Constitution has already been murdered in the courts. We need a coalition of anti-liberals. After all only 20% of us admit to being liberal. We outnumber them.

A process to strengthen the Constitution is proposed in "The Liberty Amendments". It happens through State legislatures and can't be controlled by feds.

Anyone up for a 50 year battle to regain the country like the 50 year battle it took progressives to steal our country? Or do we give up disgracing those who gave their all to give us America. We are at a tipping point my friends.

Got the guts?

[mamabearCali]

I don't see where we have a choice. There is not another place with relatively empty land to go and displace the inhabitants and take over. So those who love liberty are cornered and have not choice but to turn and fight. It will probably take a lifetime.

I think we may see a pulling together of statist and anti- statism as the new coalitions.

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[gunderwood]

A process to strengthen the Constitution is proposed in "The Liberty Amendments". It happens through State legislatures and can't be controlled by feds.

TLA Premise: the Feds are ignoring the Constitution and destroying the country.
TLA Solution: amend the document they are ignoring in the first place.
TLA Result: Feds continue ignoring the Constitution and destroying the country.

It seems incredibly naive to suggest that amending a document which is being ignored will solve anything. An exception would be to revoke the Feds money trough via the 16th and/or their excise/tariff taxation powers...we the States proclaim the Feds get no more money from our citizens. The States don't really need to amend anything, they need to start ignoring right back. They already have the 10th and just need the guts to tell the Feds to take a hike.

The problems isn't the Constitution and its flaws (there is some minor tweaking that probably should be done in any case), the problem is no one actually holding the Feds feet to the fire and say no, we really meant it when we amended the Constitution. When we said "Congress shall make no law," we really meant it! When we said "shall not be infringed," we really meant it! Etc.

Making new "rules" for the Feds won't solve anything until you're willing to hold them to the existing rules.

[ShotgunBlast]

A process to strengthen the Constitution is proposed in "The Liberty Amendments". It happens through State legislatures and can't be controlled by feds.

TLA Premise: the Feds are ignoring the Constitution and destroying the country.
TLA Solution: amend the document they are ignoring in the first place.
TLA Result: Feds continue ignoring the Constitution and destroying the country.

It seems incredibly naive to suggest that amending a document which is being ignored will solve anything. An exception would be to revoke the Feds money trough via the 16th and/or their excise/tariff taxation powers...we the States proclaim the Feds get no more money from our citizens. The States don't really need to amend anything, they need to start ignoring right back. They already have the 10th and just need the guts to tell the Feds to take a hike.

The problems isn't the Constitution and its flaws (there is some minor tweaking that probably should be done in any case), the problem is no one actually holding the Feds feet to the fire and say no, we really meant it when we amended the Constitution. When we said "Congress shall make no law," we really meant it! When we said "shall not be infringed," we really meant it! Etc.

Making new "rules" for the Feds won't solve anything until you're willing to hold them to the existing rules.

And that'll never happen while our states take money from the federal government.

[ratherfish]

A process to strengthen the Constitution is proposed in "The Liberty Amendments". It happens through State legislatures and can't be controlled by feds.

TLA Premise: the Feds are ignoring the Constitution and destroying the country.
TLA Solution: amend the document they are ignoring in the first place.
TLA Result: Feds continue ignoring the Constitution and destroying the country.

It seems incredibly naive to suggest that amending a document which is being ignored will solve anything. An exception would be to revoke the Feds money trough via the 16th and/or their excise/tariff taxation powers...we the States proclaim the Feds get no more money from our citizens. The States don't really need to amend anything, they need to start ignoring right back. They already have the 10th and just need the guts to tell the Feds to take a hike.

The problems isn't the Constitution and its flaws (there is some minor tweaking that probably should be done in any case), the problem is no one actually holding the Feds feet to the fire and say no, we really meant it when we amended the Constitution. When we said "Congress shall make no law," we really meant it! When we said "shall not be infringed," we really meant it! Etc.

Making new "rules" for the Feds won't solve anything until you're willing to hold them to the existing rules.

Try treading the book BEFORE you decide it won't work.

No one expects the Feds to fix themselves.

We'd use a State initiated process to ammend. It's already in the Constitution for times like these. Most State legislatures are conservative, or at least Rep. and the feds couldn't do a blessed thing about it. Again read "The Liberty Amendments"

Won't be easy but there IS hope.

[gunderwood]

A process to strengthen the Constitution is proposed in "The Liberty Amendments". It happens through State legislatures and can't be controlled by feds.

TLA Premise: the Feds are ignoring the Constitution and destroying the country.
TLA Solution: amend the document they are ignoring in the first place.
TLA Result: Feds continue ignoring the Constitution and destroying the country.

It seems incredibly naive to suggest that amending a document which is being ignored will solve anything. An exception would be to revoke the Feds money trough via the 16th and/or their excise/tariff taxation powers...we the States proclaim the Feds get no more money from our citizens. The States don't really need to amend anything, they need to start ignoring right back. They already have the 10th and just need the guts to tell the Feds to take a hike.

The problems isn't the Constitution and its flaws (there is some minor tweaking that probably should be done in any case), the problem is no one actually holding the Feds feet to the fire and say no, we really meant it when we amended the Constitution. When we said "Congress shall make no law," we really meant it! When we said "shall not be infringed," we really meant it! Etc.

Making new "rules" for the Feds won't solve anything until you're willing to hold them to the existing rules.

Try treading the book BEFORE you decide it won't work.

No one expects the Feds to fix themselves.

We'd use a State initiated process to ammend. It's already in the Constitution for times like these. Most State legislatures are conservative, or at least Rep. and the feds couldn't do a blessed thing about it. Again read "The Liberty Amendments"

Won't be easy but there IS hope.

Let me ask the question simpler...

What do you plan to do once you pass your "Liberty Amendments" and the Feds continue ignoring them just like they do for the current Constitution?

[gunderwood]

A process to strengthen the Constitution is proposed in "The Liberty Amendments". It happens through State legislatures and can't be controlled by feds.

TLA Premise: the Feds are ignoring the Constitution and destroying the country.
TLA Solution: amend the document they are ignoring in the first place.
TLA Result: Feds continue ignoring the Constitution and destroying the country.

It seems incredibly naive to suggest that amending a document which is being ignored will solve anything. An exception would be to revoke the Feds money trough via the 16th and/or their excise/tariff taxation powers...we the States proclaim the Feds get no more money from our citizens. The States don't really need to amend anything, they need to start ignoring right back. They already have the 10th and just need the guts to tell the Feds to take a hike.

The problems isn't the Constitution and its flaws (there is some minor tweaking that probably should be done in any case), the problem is no one actually holding the Feds feet to the fire and say no, we really meant it when we amended the Constitution. When we said "Congress shall make no law," we really meant it! When we said "shall not be infringed," we really meant it! Etc.

Making new "rules" for the Feds won't solve anything until you're willing to hold them to the existing rules.

And that'll never happen while our states take money from the federal government.

Agreed. It is exceptionally unlikely, but I was just conditioning my statement.

We the people need to find a way to make the States hold the Feds to the Constitution. That's not easy and kind of the point. Regardless of what you get the States to pass or amend, until the States are willing to hold the Feds to the Constitution, it's all for nothing.

It's like a parent making up new rules for a child because the child ignored the old ones. Doesn't solve anything until the parent actually enforces the old rules. New rules aren't a solution, enforcement is...and you can expect the child to resist it kicking and screaming.

Edit: Sounds like the gun laws doesn't it? Criminals are by definition those who break the law. Making new gun laws doesn't stop the criminals who are looking to commit murder, rape, etc. All it does is create new criminals out of previously law-abiding citizens as well as harass the rest of us. Making more laws to make more criminals doesn't solve anything. Only enforcing the existing rules and punishing the criminals does anything useful.

[Remek]

So, basically, I think we all know where we are from the last few posts.

The end game must be to get competent people in the state offices then.

Now you make me want to vote for Sarvis no matter what! Dang it!