OC question

[MarcSpaz]

Also to Mspaz the OAG's conclusion is clear that a person without a CWP can have the firearm withing reach while in the vehicle thus allowing
the driver to holster the firearm since it would be included in the Concealed exclusion because the firearm is properly secured in a container, the container being the holster.

Welcome to the site. I appreciate all the feedback and look forward to seeing some nice toys posted up soon...

What you are saying makes sense. I am just having trouble wrapping my head around the concept of a holster being a container. The generally accepted definition of a container is an object that can be used to hold or transport something. A holster does exactly that.

I guess as long as law enforcement and the AG all agree, I'm good with it. Me sharing my interpretation is to keep someone out of trouble. That's about it.

...god why don't Virginia residents just get a CC permit...

I said that from the start. Just get it. Seriously.

The way the law looks to me, if you can't obtain a CHP after completing the required training, you likely can't legally own and open carry either.

[ProShooter]

I am a little confused, I have always been told that if you do not have a CC-permit that you must store the firearm and it must take 3 steps to obtain and or load the firearm. looking at VAcode.org http://vacode.org/18.2-308/#C10

Not to pick on you at all, but that is one of the problems here in Virginia....someone has always been "told something or heard something". Its like the old "gun must be visible from 3 sides rules" for open carry. Its all rumor.

You guys are reading stuff into the law that just isn't there. If you follow the code as its broken down above, you'll see how it makes sense. The law doesn't tell you what you can do, it tells you what you cannot do.

You are all welcome to come take my class, the Intro to Concealed Carry in Virginia. I teach it a few times a year and I explain all of the confusing laws. - http://proactiveshooters.com/general-co ... rry-in-va/

[Chasbo00]

I like to read the law myself. Most laws, excluding tax laws,
are logical. After reading the laws yourself you can seek some
clarification if they are not clear. But, sometimes the laws are
just badly written and it takes a court case or cases to clear
things up.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[ProShooter]

But, sometimes the laws are
just badly written and it takes a court case or cases to clear
things up.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

So true!

[MarcSpaz]

The AG has spoken. LEO's and trainers cleared the air. Though I don't agree, I will concede and except it as correct and true. Especially since the accepted interpretation is more liberal than mine. Jim... thanks for putting in the effort. Its appreciated...

Okay. With that said, this thread got way too serious... lets have some fun while we put a new spin on this. Several people were right in saying its vague. Lets take the words for their literal meaning instead of guessing what the lawmakers were thinking. I think we can have some fun with this.

The code doesn't used the word "concealed" while defining the law anywhere. It only uses the word concealed in the section listing exceptions and acceptable defenses while talking about a CHP being a valid defense. So lets get the word concealed out of our minds for a second.

The law says "If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation". So we don't wonder what that means, the law has provided a definition of when a weapon is considered "hidden from common observation". It says "For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature."

If we look at the definition, leaning toward the print in bold, no one would ever need a CHP unless they have a gun that doesn't look like a gun. It would only be "hidden from common observation" if it was disguised as something like say a brief case, a camera, a lolly pop, a computer, or any other inanimate object that does not resemble the commonly known shape of a firearm.

It doesn't say that it is illegal to have a weapon on your person that is not visible or in plain view, preventing people from knowing you have a firearm. If it is tucked in my IWB holster and my shirt is over it so it is completely hidden, the gun still looks like a gun and therefore not in violation of the written letter of the law.

Any takers? What's your spin on this?

[ffemt358]

That's a very interesting way to look at it, I've always felt that laws were written to be confusing. With something as serious as a weapon charge it would be nice to not have to read the verbiage 5646024606516 times to grasp the full meaning of it and even then there are so many ways it can be interpreted and so many variables . I do have to agree, if you don't think to much into it, then it would appear one would not even need a chp unless they were James Bond . Just want to thank everyone for their input on this, it seems like a simple question until you really look into it. Judging from what others have said, especially on oc.org if it is illegal to remain holstered while ocing in a vehicle without a chp then there are a whole lot of people breaking the law on a regular basis. I did make it to Staunton today and applied for my chp, the lady was very nice and said they have 45 days to do it but then nicely said don't worry they have only been taking a couple weeks lately.

[OakRidgeStars]

This is the best discussion on open carry that we've had in a while.

Carry on

[krvw]

Good discussion here, thanks. My CHP application should be about 1/2 way done by now in any case, but my main motivator for doing it is so that I don't accidentally run afoul of the law. It is very confusing, and I want to ensure I follow the rules appropriately -- having the CHP seems to give me some leeway, especially when it comes to how I transport my firearms (e.g., loaded vs. unloaded, locked container vs. unlocked container). (I'm still studying/learning before I'm ready to decide if CC is right for me.)

Cheers,

KRvW

[ProShooter]

The laws are actually very simple once you learn how they are constructed. What tends to happen is that people read stuff into them, or look for permission to do something.

[chriscw81]

aaaaaand just get a CHP.

[SHMIV]

I do not WANT a CHP. I do not want to beg permission and pay a fee to exercise a Constitutional right. I find something to be inherently wrong with that notion.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[MarcSpaz]

I can tell you exactly what it is too.. The constitution was created to limit the power of government over the people. After only a few hundred years, greedy, power-hungry selfish SOB's have managed to convince enough people that the Constitution is outdated and has no meaning or that it doesn't apply to "today". So now that half the country is taking free handouts from the rest of us that work because the government forces us through taxes... they keep voting these selfish people back into office so the money keeps flowing, regardless of how much our country turns into a continental prison.

Freedom and freedom of choice have become an illusion used to control the people.

That extreme enough for you? LOL

[ffemt358]

I do not WANT a CHP. I do not want to beg permission and pay a fee to exercise a Constitutional right. I find something to be inherently wrong with that notion.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I just applied for a chp, however I do agree with you 110%. I wasn't going to apply but decided that in certain situations would be a lot safer legally with a chp. I support your decision not to get one.

[ffemt358]

I can tell you exactly what it is too.. The constitution was created to limit the power of government over the people. After only a few hundred years, greedy, power-hungry selfish SOB's have managed to convince enough people that the Constitution is outdated and has no meaning or that it doesn't apply to "today". So now that half the country is taking free handouts from the rest of us that work because the government forces us through taxes... they keep voting these selfish people back into office so the money keeps flowing, regardless of how much our country turns into a continental prison.

Freedom and freedom of choice have become an illusion used to control the people.

That extreme enough for you? LOL

+1