America's first Atheist Monument

[WBlacklidge]

This drives me nutty:

http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/06/04/ame ... ?hpt=hp_t3

If the American Atheists are fighting to separate church from state they can not break the rules themselves. It is absurdly hypocritical. Every year in downtown Leesburg, VA they have the nativity and recently they started allowing atheist signs as well. The point isn't to be inclusive, otherwise the court house grounds would be covered in every flavor or polytheist, theist, deist or atheist garbage.

This is why I can't bring myself to join a group such as the Beltway Atheists or American Atheists. They will in the same breath say the 10 Commandments statue violates the US Constitution and then have no qualms with putting their signs up on public property.

I do appreciate the local government avoiding excessive spending on what would have been a lengthy court battle that they would have lost and that the Christian group that put up their statue was welcoming of the bench but it should have never come to that. What government clown even allowed the Commandments in the first place? I am sure she/he got promoted for coming up with a compromise.

[SpanishInquisition]

Shouldnt there be nothing to see at the site?

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[SHMIV]

Lol, Spanish!

I don't know why Atheists get there shorts in a knot so much. I guess that they are still trying to convince themselves of their position on the matter of religion.

I find it interesting that the monument includes quotes from both Jefferson and Franklin, since neither were Atheist.

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[ShotgunBlast]

This is exactly what happens when government tries to do more than what government should be doing. Free speech forum? Why can't a government courthouse just be a government courthouse so we don't end up with stupid situations like this?

[SHMIV]

The problem with an official "Free Speech Forum" is the implication that free speech is not permissable outside of the officially designated zone.

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[dorminWS]

In a very significant way, it seems to me the atheist who demands that others not believe or practice their religion seem to me to have a lot in common with the muslim extremist who demands that others convert to and practice HIS religion.

[WBlacklidge]

In a very significant way, it seems to me the atheist who demands that others not believe or practice their religion seem to me to have a lot in common with the muslim extremist who demands that others convert to and practice HIS religion.

That is a bit of a stretch. I do not know many atheists that demand others to change their beliefs. Actually if you images.google 'atheist billboard' it is more about letting people know there are others that don't believe, that it doesn't make you a bad person and where to find community.

Atheists do not say you are damned and irrevocably immoral if you do not agree. The worst of atheists try to degrade those who don't agree, are verbally hostile or have a pompous attitude about them. The worst of the religious want to kill you.

[WBlacklidge]

Lol, Spanish!

I don't know why Atheists get there shorts in a knot so much. I guess that they are still trying to convince themselves of their position on the matter of religion.

I find it interesting that the monument includes quotes from both Jefferson and Franklin, since neither were Atheist.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Jefferson and Franklin were both deists if I remember correctly and both were openly critical of organized religion (which was mostly Christian, although they wouldn't have called it that... the word Christian comes out of the JFK era if I remember correctly... I probably don't.) so that is why they are often quoted by the secular.

Your first statement about atheists needing to convince themselves is a bit odd. The religious folk proselytize on a level that is exponentially more prevalent than atheists. They are very much one in the same and something I support. If you believe something to be true and helpful to your fellow man I would think it immoral to not speak out about it... whether that is religious or not religious.

[Kreutz]

Atheism has taken a more militant bent the last decade or so. They used to just wish to be left alone, now a vocal minority is on a decidedly anti-theistic offensive.

The irony is these individuals exhibit the exact same shrill intolerance of any differing viewpoints they accuse theists of.

My other gripe with atheists is that 99% of the time it just means "anti-Christian", truly rare is the atheist who will even mention (much less condemn) any other religion.

Take Catholicism and Buddhism....both bar female ordination, yet only the former is excoriated as "sexist". Hell, a Buddhist monk isn't even allowed to interact with any woman.

Yet to the liberal Buddhism is "beautiful", while Catholicism is "backwards".

[WBlacklidge]

I googled it.. I was definitely wrong about when the word "christian" was first prevalent. I was thinking of JFK using 'christians' in politics because other christian flavors were worried about the Vatican having an influence on his politics.

[WBlacklidge]

Kreutz:

I agree that it isn't fair. The pope and the Vatican get a ton of crap because of the past (Crusades, etc) and at the same time Buddhism doesn't get the same criticism. Buddhism isn't all smiles, non-violence and freedom. If the Dalai Lama had his way they would shun the Chinese government and get back to their awful caste system. Also they are NOT non-violent. There is a lot to criticize for sure.

I can only speak for myself but I don't have a hate for religion. I have a hate for violence over religious ideology. You don't see death threats or blanket statements about a groups morality issued by atheists and there are no infallible atheist texts that call for the death of the believer. Those things do exist against atheists. Folk like Matt Stone and Trey Parker, Rushdie, Penn Jillette, the Bangladesh Bloggers, Jessica Alqueist (a highschool girl)... I can name a lot of people that have had very real threats of violence against them because they didn't believe in a god.

So please do not try to say it is the same, it isn't.

[FiremanBob]

I find there is a high correlation between militant atheists, who loudly express their intolerance of religion, and left-wingers, specifically Occupy types and other Democrats. For them, government is their god and the Democrat Party is their church. Anyone who disagrees is an infidel.

Even the outspoken atheist Penn Jillette is appropriately supportive of the freedom to practice, or not to practice, one's religion.

[gunderwood]

Atheism has taken a more militant bent the last decade or so. They used to just wish to be left alone, now a vocal minority is on a decidedly anti-theistic offensive.

The irony is these individuals exhibit the exact same shrill intolerance of any differing viewpoints they accuse theists of.

My other gripe with atheists is that 99% of the time it just means "anti-Christian", truly rare is the atheist who will even mention (much less condemn) any other religion.

Take Catholicism and Buddhism....both bar female ordination, yet only the former is excoriated as "sexist". Hell, a Buddhist monk isn't even allowed to interact with any woman.

Yet to the liberal Buddhism is "beautiful", while Catholicism is "backwards".

+1

Straight from the horses mouth...

The bench will also feature quotes from the Bible listing punishments for breaking the Ten Commandments, like execution—a move that’s designed to “make it clear that the Ten Commandments are not the ‘great moral code’ they’re often portrayed to be,” as American Atheists Public Relations Director Dave Muscato has said.

Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/06/04/ame ... z2VHirgqET

[SHMIV]

No, my position is not odd, at all. There is a big difference between fanatically believing something, and fanatically believing nothing.

My biggest issue (though, not my only issue) with Atheism, is the issue of morality. On what does an Atheist base his morals and values? And why should anyone share those morals and values? If the Atheist position is correct, then why does any law of man apply to me; how is that even just?

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[FiremanBob]

A rational Atheist can base his morals on the particular essence of what makes us human. An excellent, perhaps even definitive, explanation is provided by Ayn Rand in her collection of essays, "The Virtue of Selfishness", especially the first one, "Objectivist Ethics".

[SHMIV]

Ok, Bob... but, what makes us human? And why is it important? From the Atheist standpoint, it is by mere accident that we have progressed further than the average frog. Why must we feel responsible for anything? We didn't ask for this.

Ayn Rand may have thought it out, but all she has left us is her personal opinion. And while her opinion may sound nicer than that of, say Marx, the value is still the same.

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[gunderwood]

A rational Atheist can base his morals on the particular essence of what makes us human. An excellent, perhaps even definitive, explanation is provided by Ayn Rand in her collection of essays, "The Virtue of Selfishness", especially the first one, "Objectivist Ethics".

I like Rand, particularly Atlas Shrugged, but when ever she got to why, it was laughable IMHO. A huge chasm of missing logic. If humans were as she describes, there would be no reason for her to write in the first place. The world would already be ordered as she suggests. Ordering the world according to human nature yields the mess we have, not the libertarian utopia she desired.

[FiremanBob]

SHMIV, have you read the work I cited? If not, please give it a thoughtful read before reacting. I know that many people have knee-jerk reactions to the name Ayn Rand, but these reactions are not rational, as they are not fully informed.

[Reverenddel]

I thought a urinal was the first Atheist Monument? Because I piss on it every day.

[SHMIV]

Admittedly, no. I have read nothing by Rand. But, still, my point is valid. It doesn't matter if I agree with her or not, or like her or not. If Atheism is true, then we are still left with her opinions on the matter.

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