College: What's the point?

[OakRidgeStars]

Is higher education dead?

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From The American Interest

As nearly half of young American college grads work in jobs that don’t require a bachelor’s degree while struggling to pay off crushing student debt, lawmakers and educators are beginning to ask a critical question: What is college for?

The answer isn’t obvious. Until recently, much weight has been given to the intellectual value of a traditional liberal arts degree. But as more students graduate without employment prospects, the notion that universities should spend more time on practical training in marketable skills has begun to take hold. Frank Bruni writes in the New York Times:

Colleges in Virginia are now required to provide information for a database that shows what graduates majored in and what they wound up earning 18 months after getting their diplomas. Florida lawmakers have toyed with encouraging students to study engineering by making their tuition cheaper than humanities majors’. Pat McCrory, the new governor of North Carolina, recently advocated legislation to distribute funds to the state’s colleges based not on their enrollments — or, as he said on a radio show, on “butts in seats” — but instead on “how many of those butts can get jobs.”

Read more: http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... the-point/

[dorminWS]

More and more colleges are taking notice of this issue; and I believe it was at least a part of the basis of the recent unpleasantness between the President and the Board of Visitors of UVa. College administrations and particularly faculties everywhere would prefer to ignore the emerging trends and continue in the time-honored liberal arts tradition of "producing educated men and women" - who may just happen to be unemployable on today's market. UVa is no exception.

[Kreutz]

Some fields absolutely require a college education; for them college is a wise investment.

If your field doesn't require one it is a foolish waste of money. A trade school, apprenticeship or OJT is a good bet.

It seems the "point" of college for most is to keep lavishly compensated administrators and tenured professors from starving to death as they would otherwise should they ever have to actually work.

A solid liberal arts background is available at your local library anyway. They're called "books".

[ShotgunBlast]

I scratch my head when I hear my unemployed friends with bachelor's degrees talking about how they're going back for their master's.

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[SHMIV]

@Kreutz: most of my education has come from books. The rest has come from practical application and critical thinking. I just don't have a slip of fancy paper to document it.

It's critical thinking, I believe, that's missing in todays world.

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[VBshooter]

We need to start telling the youngsters that college is over rated and their is no shame in LEARNING a trade!!!

[Reverenddel]

You know? We'll always need plumbers, electricians, carpenters, bricklayers, machinists, and welders....

Not so sure I'm gonna need a Data Analysts if the SHTF....

Another example, I have many moons under my pelts for my job, I have a degree specifically in my field of work... it has helped me get to the position I am... That being said? It wasn't EXPENSIVE, I didn't LIVE ON CAMPUS, I didn't want to have the "College Experience". I wanted a degree... Period.

You start with an associate in your field of study from a Community College, find a local public college close to home, and you pay for it yourself, or do like I did, and get a FULL TIME JOB that has EDUCATION BENEFITS, and you go to school full time, and work full time.

It's called "Sacrifice", you make it in your youth, so you're not struggling in your elder years.

[vaeevictiss]

You know? We'll always need plumbers, electricians, carpenters, bricklayers, machinists, and welders....

Not so sure I'm gonna need a Data Analysts if the SHTF....

Another example, I have many moons under my pelts for my job, I have a degree specifically in my field of work... it has helped me get to the position I am... That being said? It wasn't EXPENSIVE, I didn't LIVE ON CAMPUS, I didn't want to have the "College Experience". I wanted a degree... Period.

You start with an associate in your field of study from a Community College, find a local public college close to home, and you pay for it yourself, or do like I did, and get a FULL TIME JOB that has EDUCATION BENEFITS, and you go to school full time, and work full time.

It's called "Sacrifice", you make it in your youth, so you're not struggling in your elder years.

The one key thing you said here is the problem. Kids today go to college for the "college experience". They go to screw and party. I decided to join the military, and while I would be lying if I said I wasn't doing that also, I was getting hands on experience in a technical field.

Today, your tech industries at least will easily take a vet over a college grad because they know that they can do the work, and not just read it from a book.

Add in the college experience and dumbing down of education, they get to their new job and just don't know poop. I don't blame the degree, I blame the college kids for not taking advantage of what was provided to them.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[GeneFrenkle]

In some cases, employers are willing to pay for higher education. There may be a minimum gpa requirement as well as spendimg a few years at the employer. This is a free education and job security for that "repayment" period.

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[Swampman]

Both my kids are in VA colleges. Both schools are doing the same thing. First, they reduce the classes that the kids need to graduate making them stay for five years and taking basket-weaving to fill in the gaps. Second, they raise prices on the classes and other services they require to take advantage of the gov't money that is available. Not their responsibility to pay back the loans, they just want the money. Recently my youngest went to the Registrars office to see about getting one class she needs now in order to graduate in four years. They refused until she broke down in tears and only then got her into the class she needs.

By and large, college sucks. Most kids go these days for the partying that is either payed for by Mom and Dad, or on loans that they don't really see until they graduate. Then the bomb drops, AND they can't find a job in this economy. Did I already say COLLEGE SUCKS? Oops!

[GeneFrenkle]

@swampman - yea, our eldest ran into that. Core classes were rescheduled and conflicted forcing the 5 year route. College/university is a business. It'd be nice if they actually acknowledged it instead of playing the "education is our priority" card. They have really changed over the last 20+ years.

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[diducmeb4]

All you guys are so right, especially about college being a business. I have a son who attends George Mason and two weeks ago, I got a phone call from a school fund raiser asking me to make a "good will donation". After all tuition and fees for EVERYTHING, even parking, they have the gall to call me and ask for a donation. I promptly told them I make a donation every semester when I pay tuition and all the other %#&^@! fees they charge. It was a really short conversation after that.

[Jakeiscrazy]

I'm currently enrolled in a community college and the whole experience just annoys me at every turn. Mostly its the fact that the only reason I'm going to college is the get a job in a field that requires it(computer networking) and for most of your years in college you learn almost nothing regarding said topic. I predict that it wont be long before you start seeing a big drop in college students do to such things and the continually rising cost.

[Kreutz]

I scratch my head when I hear my unemployed friends with bachelor's degrees talking about how they're going back for their master's.

Its an odd human instinct to throw good money after bad. We all do it from time to time.

I was offered a department head position at a college I shall not name, the entire interview revolved around my ability to bring in students for the program I would be "creating" (aka ripping off wholesale from another college in the eastern part of the state and my old college).

I only have a bachelors degree (they needed my rather rare credential), to get the degree program accredited someone with a masters would have to run it on paper while they paid for my graduate degree so it would be "in progress".

The trippiest thing was when it came down to my salary, and this is where it all collapsed. I figure, "Hell, these people have a good racket, they can afford it" and I throw out a nice solid six figure number. I figure I could only run my biz part time if I do this, so, gotta keep the income up ya know?

NO DICE! They were offering almost half what I wanted when the program would have been supremely profitable since I could draw cash from a stone if need be let alone idiot man-children students with the government paying their tuition!

I'd like to say I didn't take the job on principle, but since I have none of those when money is involved I really just passed based on my offense on not being in on the racket to my sufficient standards. The negotiations went on for a few days since they were desperate to get this up and running and we almost settled on me getting their full time salary for part time work but the board of whatever put the kibosh on that to avoid setting a precedent.

Ah well. I like working from home in my underwear more anyway.

tl;dr: It really is a racket.

[OakRidgeStars]

I'm currently enrolled in a community college and the whole experience just annoys me at every turn. Mostly its the fact that the only reason I'm going to college is the get a job in a field that requires it(computer networking) and for most of your years in college you learn almost nothing regarding said topic. I predict that it wont be long before you start seeing a big drop in college students do to such things and the continually rising cost.

Look for a internship in IT and start working on your Cisco certs. Once you get your foot in the door, your employer will let you do the OTJ and pickup the tab for future networking certs.

[PhantomPhixer]

When I got my Bachelor's 18 years ago, it was pretty much the terminal degree in my field. There were two Master's programs on the planet. Now it has become so common that a couple of schools are starting to offer Phd's. We're talking about a field that is largely based on raw talent and applied principles. The guys that I've met with MS degrees are no more useful than the guy with the BS, it has simply become a management / salary differentiator, which means about ZERO to me. I'll take a talented BS candidate with experience any day of the week.

We're one of the few parents I know who don't push college. If she wants to, then great, but we've explained the vocational concept as well, and she has seen by example that running one's own business is a viable option. So is the military. So is volunteering for a few years somewhere to figure out what you want to do. It comes down to what is smart for the given situation, and goals of the student.

[TheGodfather]

Is higher education dead?

For the most part, college is filled with a bunch of unsuccessful losers who like to call themselves professors. I came across a few in college who I could respect for their knowledge and experience, but the vast majority were brainless parakeets who just repeated the useless crap they were fed by their loser professors.

That being said, an Associates degree can be a valuable education. Jobs are still out there for people with specific skills. Spending two years focusing just on one skill and then jumping into an internship costs less and gets you a solid job faster.

[donut]

I think by and far college is whatever you put into it. If you go into it with a particular attitude you're probably going to walk out feeling disenchanted or generally let down. If you want to learn something new and realize you're not going to like everything you hear, you'll probably feel differently about it. I go to school full time at a rather expensive university one of the most expensive in the country. I'm surrounded by some kids who from time to time grew up a bit differently than I did. Some of them are flush with cash, others are slackers but then some of them are some damn hard workers who are pretty damn intelligent. So, maybe I ought to try to learn from other students just as much as I learn from a professor. Why college, because I have the GI bill and my skills I learned in the Army didn't mean crap. Is college going to guarantee you a set salary and "job of a lifetime" ? No, it does not,so they can stop selling that line. But does it give you a leg up? Yeah it does. So yeah you'll get something out of it if you want to put something into it. Is it for everyone? No, it isn't. There is a difference between a literature degree and a physics degree. Some people are damned brilliant and that stuff ought to be encouraged rather than chanted down.

[Jakeiscrazy]

I'm currently enrolled in a community college and the whole experience just annoys me at every turn. Mostly its the fact that the only reason I'm going to college is the get a job in a field that requires it(computer networking) and for most of your years in college you learn almost nothing regarding said topic. I predict that it wont be long before you start seeing a big drop in college students do to such things and the continually rising cost.

Look for a internship in IT and start working on your Cisco certs. Once you get your foot in the door, your employer will let you do the OTJ and pickup the tab for future networking certs.

Update: Do to the influence of an IT professional on this board(not sure if he mines being mentioned) I've decided to do just that. I'm going to spend the summer getting some certs if anyone has any experiences with companies doing cert training that you liked by all means I would love to here about them.