The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

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TacticalMom
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The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by TacticalMom »

My :tinfoil: crazyness for the day.

I just read an article about GMO animals (genetically modified animals) that may be accepted and passed as acceptable food we can eat this summer. Yay I am so excited. F'rs messing with my food. Where animals will be modified to grow faster, goats will be modified to make proteins stronger than steal and lighter than carbon fiber. Especially for us to eat, chickens that only have female chicks.

This reminds me of a book I read a while ago, written by Margaret Atwood, called Oryx and Crake. Its about man and his demise. About man messing with nature and making hybrid spliced animals, and things called and I am paraphrasing chicken nubs. These grow on trees and have been bred without troublesome heads, or extra bones like wings or legs. They are fed by a hole in the flesh and when they are ready to harvest/be eaten they take them down and have less processing due to lack of extra bones. I really enjoyed the book.
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Here is the article I read:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... trage.html

Here is the wiki page about the book, if you don't wanna read the book and just get the gist of it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oryx_and_Crake

Anyway this is my :tinfoil: :tinfoil: craziness of the day. I am sorry I would rather wait for my food to grow as it is intended than to add genes, of other animals to make them grow faster, get fatter/produce more meat, or resist sicknesses.
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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by Reverenddel »

That's scary stuff in truth...

It's also why people are becoming more, and more allergic to things...You keep messing with stuff, instead of letting nature run it's course with evolutionary changes.
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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by Kreutz »

We have been doing this since the creation of agriculture. Ever seen wild blueberries? They're the size of peppercorns. The large plump orbs are the result of selective breeding.

Its just now more technologically advanced and specific genes can be inserted or removed as necessary.

If we can alter and improve safely, why not do it? Why cling to an idealistic notion of agriculture that never really existed in the first place?
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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by TacticalMom »

Kreutz wrote:We have been doing this since the creation of agriculture. Ever seen wild blueberries? They're the size of peppercorns. The large plump orbs are the result of selective breeding.

Its just now more technologically advanced and specific genes can be inserted or removed as necessary.

If we can alter and improve safely, why not do it? Why cling to an idealistic notion of agriculture that never really existed in the first place?
I do not mind selective breeding. Done in the time/life span of the plant or animal. I do despise my corn having Jellyfish DNA added so that it is repellent to bugs. Gregor Mendel was the first to start. I am ok with the Mendel's Laws of Inheritance.

I do despise Genetically in a lab altering my animals splicing them with other animals so that I can have a fatter pig, or a fish that grows faster than it normally should.

I also despise that these things are getting passed as "safe" to eat and when testing has not been completed on it. Why is it going out before there has been enough testing on such things? Lobbiest for large to big to fail companies that are throwing gobs of money at tour law system and getting things pushed forward before it has had enough generations of testing for us to see the effects that it will have on later generations of our families. We are finding out the the GMO corn with the jelly fish dna is bad for us.

Our corn for example was a grass and the original cobs were the size of a green bean or smaller. They have gotten bigger first from selective breeding. However, now Monsanto is adding genes from other animals to make it bigger, better, bug resistant. I deplore that.

Yes I am aware of how our food has been evolved, and I am aware of largely of what has and has not changed in our culture and with our food. I do have a culinary degree, and mastered B&P. It is of great interest to me how civilization have evolved, and how their food has changed with it. If I ever get back into school I will try to get my PHD in Culinary Anthropology.

Hope this helps with your confusion Kreutz. :wave:
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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by DryBones »

I'm all for chickens with more wings! Who doesn't love wings?!
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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by Palladin »

Kreutz wrote: ...If we can alter and improve safely, why not do it? Why cling to an idealistic notion of agriculture that never really existed in the first place?

Really, Kreutz? Who determines "safely" ? The cats marketing the product in question? Will you sacrifice your kids to the test labs to check this crap out?

A case of soylent green for you... :)
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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by Palladin »

DryBones wrote:I'm all for chickens with more wings! Who doesn't love wings?!

They spliced insect genes into a chicken eggs to get six legged chickens, but nobody could catch the durned things... :roll:
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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by gfost1 »

Howdy, Yall,

For those who believe,
Leviticus 19:19 "'Keep my decrees. "'Do not mate different kinds of animals. "'Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. "'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
For those who choose not to,
Don't you see the danger, John, inherent in what you're doing here? Genetic power is the most awesome force the planet's ever seen, but you wield it like a kid that's found his dad's gun. -- Dr. Ian Malcolm "Jurassic Park"
Regards,

George

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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by SHMIV »

Well, George, count me in the former, though the latter is a great quote.

I've often wonder about the clothing part. I get the part about animals and plants; that makes sense. Really can't improve on what God has created. But I've never understood the harm in a wool and cotton sweater, though.

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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by Swampman »

And we wonder why cancer and heart disease are on the rise. Need land to grow my own beef, chicken, and pork. Let the city folk eat all that processed crapola.
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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by TacticalMom »

gfost1 wrote:Howdy, Yall,

For those who believe,
Leviticus 19:19 "'Keep my decrees. "'Do not mate different kinds of animals. "'Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. "'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
For those who choose not to,
Don't you see the danger, John, inherent in what you're doing here? Genetic power is the most awesome force the planet's ever seen, but you wield it like a kid that's found his dad's gun. -- Dr. Ian Malcolm "Jurassic Park"
Regards,

George

This is my favorite Jurrasic Park quote. I was thinking about this when I made the post. Great minds and all that. =)

"Dr. Ian Malcolm: If I may... Um, I'll tell you the problem with the scientific power that you're using here, it didn't require any discipline to attain it. You read what others had done and you took the next step. You didn't earn the knowledge for yourselves, so you don't take any responsibility for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could, and before you even knew what you had, you patented it, and packaged it, and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now
[bangs on the table]
Dr. Ian Malcolm: you're selling it, you wanna sell it. Well...
John Hammond: I don't think you're giving us our due credit. Our scientists have done things which nobody's ever done before...
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should. "

"Yeah, yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should."
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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by Kreutz »

Who will prove its safety? Don't tell me you don't trust the free market to handle that? :whistle:

Look, without getting overtly technical theres a reason you even can snip a certain sequence of genetic code from say, a jellyfish and put them into corn or a pig. Its because all living things, animal or plant are really quite genetically similar.....you share roughly 50% of your genome with the banana you had for breakfast. Thats a huge number for two things so different.

This isnt a shock since animal and plant diverged off each other about 1.5 billion years ago. Everything just gets recycled.

At the end of the day this may even be safer than dousing food in neurotoxic pesticides. Or eating them may cause bizarre tumors. Time and research will tell.
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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by TacticalMom »

Kreutz wrote:Who will prove its safety? Don't tell me you don't trust the free market to handle that? :whistle:

Look, without getting overtly technical theres a reason you even can snip a certain sequence of genetic code from say, a jellyfish and put them into corn or a pig. Its because all living things, animal or plant are really quite genetically similar.....you share roughly 50% of your genome with the banana you had for breakfast. Thats a huge number for two things so different.

This isnt a shock since animal and plant diverged off each other about 1.5 billion years ago. Everything just gets recycled.

At the end of the day this may even be safer than dousing food in neurotoxic pesticides. Or eating them may cause bizarre tumors. Time and research will tell.
I understand Keutz what you are saying. I also understand that plants and animals are similar in some of the genomes. However, there in no way will a Jellyfish have a chance to "get together" with a kernel of corn to make jelly corn babies. What they are doing is playing with fire, and they don't know how to control it properly. It can and has already started getting out of hand. They make seeds that with a few tweaks no longer produce seeds that will reproduce on their own. It is mixing with heirloom and heritage seeds.

“To avoid contamination problems, GMO seeds should be banned and not produced. There is unforeseen harm they may be causing to the environment, and we’re able to get adequate production using nonengineered varieties of vegetable seeds. There is no benefit to the risk of GMO crops cross-pollinating with pure crops, whose offspring would not produce viable seeds.”

They are making crops that are resistant to the pesticides, and you know what those pests for a few years were largely not a problem. But now, those pests are becoming immune to the pesticides. Guess what, now they have to change the seeds genome again.

"The GMO soybean can cross-pollinate with the heirloom soybean (bees don’t know the difference and can’t see property lines), creating a generation of all-mutant seeds. If the organic-soybean farmer tries to use this generation of seed for the next season like he does every year, that seed will be sterile, or as a viable hybrid, posses a completely different set of traits than the parent heirloom.

No matter what, the organic farmer now has altered seeds, and the true-to-type, pure seeds are wiped out of existence.

Forever."


I won't convince you that the GMO's are bad. I don't intend to. That is for you to come to terms with. I can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink. However, I think it is important for everyone to be informed so that they can make informed decisions.

"At the end of the day this may even be safer than dousing food in neurotoxic pesticides. Or eating them may cause bizarre tumors. Time and research will tell."

Yes that is the case, however, you don't know all of it. They are making strains of plants that are immune to the neurotoxins so that they can safely spray the plants with them anyway and not lose any of the crop. They are changing the seeds/plants/animals in so many ways that they are running into problems.

Yes time and research will tell. My whole point of the original post is that they are not taking the time it takes to see what the whole outcome will be. We are seeing from the past changes they have made that it is not all good. Time and Research are being done on our generation, and kids and their kids. I am not ok with this. Just so that they can make more money now. I am not and never will be ok with that.

If you are interested here is the article I am quoting.
http://www.edibleaustin.com/content/edi ... ?task=view

This is one of hundreds and hundreds. You can read the research being done on animals that are eating GMO feeds and ones that are being fed non GMO feed, the difference is startling.

Toodles and have a great day! :wave: :coffee:
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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by TallEd »

I personally would prefer not to eat anything containing GMO. Snipping and grafting genes isn't done with scissors and tweezers. Genetic Modifications are made using viruses to deliver the new genetic material to the host. Viruses mutate all the time. Look at bird-flu and swine-flu. A few years ago they couldn't infect humans.

The problem I find trying to avoid GMOs is, almost every commercially available food contains them already. The most recent list I found is from 10/2012 here http://shiftfrequency.com/comprehensive ... -products/

Any list I can find of foods that do not contain GMO is made up of brands I have never seen or heard of. I always try to buy local meat and produce anyway, but that doesn't mean it is GMO free.
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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by Kreutz »

I am simply saying this avenue of research should not be artificially constrained, we should explore it and if it proves safe use it. If not, then don't.

This may or may not be the next green revolution. The population ticks higher and higher and conventional chemically based agriculture will not keep up.
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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by GeneFrenkle »

Consider canola oil... Pretty pervasive over a period of years. It is actually a GE product.

GE can be done with viruses (different types) as well as other mutagens (like UV light, antibiotics, etc). GE can also be done through selective breeding - a physical rather than chemical or vector based introduction. If we are talking cross species, then yes, virus, ionizing radiation, or chemical mutagens are used.

People do like their GE products. Consider your laundry detergent - those "enzyme action" bits are GE products, as well as your vitamins.

Part of the "issue" is how they are regulated. The EPA considers them "chemicals" and subject toTSCA. I'm not sure about USDA and don't remember FDA (been too long).

SRC: BS in GE, worked at EPA on this stuff a long time ago

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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by TacticalMom »

GeneFrenkle wrote:Consider canola oil... Pretty pervasive over a period of years. It is actually a GE product.

GE can be done with viruses (different types) as well as other mutagens (like UV light, antibiotics, etc). GE can also be done through selective breeding - a physical rather than chemical or vector based introduction. If we are talking cross species, then yes, virus, ionizing radiation, or chemical mutagens are used.

People do like their GE products. Consider your laundry detergent - those "enzyme action" bits are GE products, as well as your vitamins.

Part of the "issue" is how they are regulated. The EPA considers them "chemicals" and subject toTSCA. I'm not sure about USDA and don't remember FDA (been too long).

SRC: BS in GE, worked at EPA on this stuff a long time ago

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+1
I agree with GeneFrenkle.

Kreutz I never said I was against research and development. I actually find these things very cool. I am however, worried and scared when they (people like Monsanto, who write their own laws and pushes them through our legal system) circumvent protocol, and use money to push their agenda, and like I said in my OP push out things that have not been fully tested. Now fully tested and time it takes to test is the question. I think 3 month testing or even 6 months of testing is not enough. How will you know what kinda of impact on the organisim is going to experience, or for that matter what their offspring will encounter if you only do a 3, 4, 6 month, or even a year test. I would prefer they test them for years before deeming them safe for the general populous to consume and use.
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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by gunderwood »

Kreutz wrote:Who will prove its safety? Don't tell me you don't trust the free market to handle that? :whistle:
No. Not because the mechanism can't work, but rather because the government's regulations prohibit it from working. Namely, consumers are not generally able to identify the products they are buying because so much manipulative labeling is protected and prescribed by regulation.

I'm not opposed to GE products in concept, but it's practically impossible to actually know what you're eating. I'm also concerned about the unintended consequences and possible contamination of non-GE stocks. For example, most of the milk cows in the US lack the genetic diversity that would prevent a single illness from wiping them out. Nature is diverse for a reason, yet we insist on putting all of our eggs in one basket.

This has been going on for a long time. It's not just necessary to support the worlds growing population, but to hide the cost of inflation. For example, what passes as organic meat today is how all meat was grown at one time. That changed a long time ago, but over the years it has made meat much cheaper to manufacturer. The average consumer is unaware of how the industry changed and that their meat changed. However, as some consumers became aware they decided they didn't want to buy those products, so the organic category was created yet the cost is substantially higher (although even organics cost has come down in general). Basically, the rapid inflation of the dollar has been hidden via industrial progress.
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Re: The Book Oryx and Crake come to life, Yay!

Post by GeneFrenkle »

Monsanto, and others, are an issue all to themselves. This introduces patent system challenges and have been demonstrated as being a means to harass, bully, and abuse. The patent system needs significant rework just to handle these type of patenable technology, if you can believe bits of life are patentable.

Therr are also challenges relating to the agricultural antibiotic (feed supplements) and hormone use.

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