Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks

[SHMIV]

Mark me for another loud "NO!!"

I would prefer that the government remove itself from anything having to do with weaponry.

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[brobeo]

It will not resolve anything. From what I understand, background checks will not stop anybody from buying guns on the stree t. And that my friends, is where criminals buy their guns.

[DaRoller]

Or, they'll pass a background check and *then* go crazy (or, rather, prove that they were crazy the whole time).

[gunderwood]

It will not resolve anything. From what I understand, background checks will not stop anybody from buying guns on the stree t. And that my friends, is where criminals buy their guns.

This point can not be stated enough.

This is even according to the "Bloomberg School of Public Health, Center for Gun Policy and Research!"
http://www.jhsph.edu/research/centers-a ... eft_fs.pdf

Surveys of gun owners suggest that approximately 500,000 guns are stolen each year from private citizens....

Data from a national survey of incarcerated criminals indicate the prominent role theft plays in arming criminals...But surveys of criminals clearly understate the important of gun theft in arming criminals...

More than a quarter of all guns connected with ATF investigations of illegal gun trafficking were reported to have been stolen.

Of course they are also pushing for mandatory reporting of stolen firearms, but the reality is that many people do not report simply because they believe that the tendency of law enforcement, particularly the BATFE, is to investigate and cause trouble for the victim rather than the criminal. Despite the lack of reporting, 25% of the firearm crimes are committed with stolen firearms.


If this is correct, 40% are illegally from the street (i.e. mostly stolen) and 40% are straw purchases. http://www.dontlie.org/faq.cfm

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 40 percent of criminals obtain their firearms from friends or family and another 40 percent obtain their firearms from illegal sources on the street.

The simple fact of the matter is that criminals are acquiring their firearms from illegal sources so UBCs won't do a thing to stop them. UBCs are about making the existing gun registry accurate. Yes, we've known for years that the BATFE has been photocopying all 4473s at FFLs...it seems highly unlikely that they would go through that trouble only to destroy their copies later. For all intents and purposes, we already have backdoor registration. It's just not very effective since we still have the liberty to perform private sales. I would like to note that the existing BC system was claimed to have protections against such registration efforts and it appears the BATFE is ignoring those restrictions. If you are well read up on BATFE history you're already aware that operating outside the law is their modulus operandi.

I'm 100% for keeping that liberty. No new guns laws, no compromise.


Edit: Links for those of you who are unaware of this 4473 illegal photocopying.

http://twg2a.wordpress.com/2013/02/21/g ... 473-forms/

Background checks & ATF’s illegal copying of 4473 forms



Several gun dealers have contacted Gun Owners of America and asked for our advice. Invariably, they say that the ATF is, or has been, at their store — making wholesale copies of their 4473 forms — and they want to know if that’s legal.



We are not going to betray their confidence without permission, but GOA can say that this has occurred enough times to make us believe these are not isolated incidents. (GOA has attached several redacted stories from gun dealers in the Appendix.)



The copying of 4473 forms has happened despite the prohibition in 18 USC 923(g)(1)(D) which specifically prohibits anyone in the Justice Department from “seiz[ing] any records or other documents other than those records or documents constituting material evidence of a violation of law.”



Our experience is not unique:



* ATF using digital scanners. “ATF has been copying FFL Bound Books for years — with or without FFL permission. During annual compliance inspections in other states, FFL dealers have reported that ATF industry operations investigators (IOI) brought in digital cameras and photographed the entire dealer ‘Bound Book’ without permission of the FFL holder. Other dealers reported investigators brought in digital scanners and scanned portions of the Bound Book — line by line. Of course, the Bound Book contains the dealer’s full record of lawful firearm sales transaction records.”i

*FFL’s complain of illegal ATF activity. “The [ATF] is engaged in new illegal activity, this time in the state of Alaska. According to gun store owners in Anchorage, ATF agents are requiring that they submit what is called ‘4473 Forms’ going as far back as 2007…. The ATF has the authority to inspect or request a copy of the form if agents are conducting a criminal investigation.



“But nowhere does the law or the rules and regulations of the ATF permit the agency to require gun stores to simply turn over these records en mass as a matter of course. The gun stores in Anchorage are not being told that their records are being requested as part of a criminal investigation of any kind. The ATF has not specified certain forms from specific time frames as one would expect during such an investigation. The agency is telling the stores that it wants all of these records, in totality, going back to 2007.”ii



If the ATF is willing to engage in this activity — in full view of gun dealers — one can only imagine what is being done behind closed doors when the names of innocent gun buyers are phoned in for NICS checks. Can we truly be sure that every gun buyer’s name that is entered into the NICS computer system is completely deleted and scrubbed, without a backup being made … anywhere?

[GeneFrenkle]

> Can we truly be sure that every gun buyer’s name that is entered into the NICS computer system is completely deleted and scrubbed, without a backup being made … anywhere?

To be fair, the ATF and system backups is a big issue and not just limited to them. It's a general records management (liability and risk) exposure issue. Unfortunately, it's nontrivial to solve.

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[Palladin]

It is kind of Ironic that VGOF has 5,707 members on the books and have only had 57 members participate in the poll so far. I would like to thank all that have participated so far, but was really hoping for a better turn out then this.

Just being curious; I looked at how many of our 5707 members had 0 posts and there are 86.75 pages totaling 2169 members that have 0 posts with the majority of them have joined in the last 6 months. I would like to ask those that have not posted yet to at least drop by the New Members Report Here and say hello and participate in the discussions. ...

I wouldn't get too bent about participation, The 200 -300 folks you see on here daily (at the bottom of the front page) are the are the pulse of this forum. Today was the first day I opened this one. To bad you can't change the font color on the title, or make it flash or something.

[GeneFrenkle]

Finally, a use for the marquee tag!

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