Are WE going to act or sit back and let it all happen?

[seeknulfind]

It looks like the lefties are determined to leverage this latest shooting to strip away our 2nd Amendment rights. So what am I hearing right here on this forum?

What's the NRA going to do? How successful will THEY be? How much of our rights will THEY take away?

Lemme ask you what have YOU done to preserve YOUR rights? Have you written your congressman? Your Senators? Anybody? I have.

I wrote Congressman Hurt, Senator Warner (I admit, even I figure Sen. Webb is a lost cause and Sen. Lapdog only has ears for his Master in Chief). I also wrote in support of Gov. McDonnell for his suggestion to arm school personnel and I sent an letter to the Richmond Times editor supporting the Governor's initiative. I'm also working to garner local support -- my goal is to send a letter from several like-minded folks to lawmakers.

My feeling is this gun control foolishness will only be stopped at the grassroots level - that means you and me.

On a practical note, we've got tons of facts on our side. On a purely logical side of this argument we win hands down. So WHY do we lose ground? Any salesman can tell you -- emotion.

Every day the news shows more funerals featuring too-small caskets. Then they segue to a clip on the BIG BAD GUN. This is nothing other than shameless politicizing of a tragic event. Personally I will not stand for this in any personal conversation. I stop them right there and politely ask them not to use the murder of these defenseless kids and staff to further their agenda.

Remember that word... defenseless. If you think of a better one, by all means use that too (and please share it.)

Here's another thought:

Rep. Connolly, responding to the governor's idea of arming and training school officials said "arming teachers could have turned this incident into a firefight!"

That's right. A firefight – emphasis on “fight” – instead of a .(or as my son suggested a bloodbath or a slaughter)

What would Rep. Connolly expect law enforcement to do upon arrival? Wave their arms and yell “Stop!”? Or deploy their weapons and invoke their training to mitigate the situation?

Believe me, I've lost more arguments (and sales) trying to pit logic against emotion than I can count. The above retorts invoke some powerful images. Images we need to force the real issues.

These folks WERE defenseless. This shooting WAS a slaughter.

Even if we could eliminate guns from our society, the crazies will still be with us. Sadly, they will far too often find a way to maim and kill innocent people. One more reason why we citizens need to be prepared to defend ourselves, our loved ones and even strangers near us.

God bless,

Andy

[Doyle]

Andy,

Three cheers for your insightful assessment of this situation, I have contacted my elected state and federal representatives to make my voice heard. But I will wager that precious few on this forum have done the same. Some are too busy complaining about websites crashing as they attempt to buy extended mags or AR-15 platforms. Goes to show that most here and in the larger population of gun owners will cower down in front of the run-away government and surrender there Constitutional rights with only a whimper. It is infuriating to me to listen to the talking heads as they spout nonsense about effective gun control and imply they actually know something about firearms. When we all know almost none of them have ever held a firearm and don't know which end of the gun the bullet comes out of. It has been said that people will generally get the level of government that they deserve and if we have no more fight in us than I have seen here so far, well, maybe we deserve to surrender our Second Amendment right to the Feinsteins of the world. When they knock on your door to take your guns, where will you stand? Doyle

[kelu]

Let me make a reality check. Republican politicians care NOT about your 2nd amendment. They feel they loose ground (and they will, probably shrink under 30%) and they are scared about losing power, not your rights.
Fiscal cliff failure is not random. Dems are ready to take the bad tasting pill and have taxes increases, knowing that exactly this will get them more votes, blaming Rap for this. The most affected will be those with small and medium income (some 25-30% tax increase) , not the rich guy (10%).
Then they will come with some social programs, making people even more dependent on govt benevolence.
In couple years from now, Dems will have absolute majority everywhere. Rps have lost when they kicked Ron Paul.
I'm don't like Dems, I don't like Reps. I don't know enough about other options...

[zerodown1]

I understand your frustration Seek, we all feel the same way. But the politicians are going to do what is politically advantagious to themselves and their party wheather there's a D or an R next to their name. They are sort of like salesman, once you buy their BS and vote for them, your on your own.

[KaosDad]

There is another thing we can do. Demonstrate that 80MM+ firearms owners go about their business every day and do no harm. Demonstrate that by carrying whenever you can. Organize open carry breakfasts, dinners, lunches, picnics, motorcycle rides - anything. Remember - have a voice recorder with you. Put it on a lanyard around your neck and have it ON.

If you have such an event, invite your local politician - be upfront, don't dupe anyone in to coming.

If you are confronted, speak respectfully, have your facts straight.

This is no time to hide.

[dragonzfury050]

Andy,

Three cheers for your insightful assessment of this situation, I have contacted my elected state and federal representatives to make my voice heard. But I will wager that precious few on this forum have done the same. Some are too busy complaining about websites crashing as they attempt to buy extended mags or AR-15 platforms. Goes to show that most here and in the larger population of gun owners will cower down in front of the run-away government and surrender there Constitutional rights with only a whimper. It is infuriating to me to listen to the talking heads as they spout nonsense about effective gun control and imply they actually know something about firearms. When we all know almost none of them have ever held a firearm and don't know which end of the gun the bullet comes out of. It has been said that people will generally get the level of government that they deserve and if we have no more fight in us than I have seen here so far, well, maybe we deserve to surrender our Second Amendment right to the Feinsteins of the world. When they knock on your door to take your guns, where will you stand? Doyle

You make a good point Doyle. We all need to get up and get active. I have written and called all of my reps, and I'm working on getting my family (immediate and extended) to do the same. If we don't do something and get others to as well, then we have screwed the proverbial pooch.

[thekinetic]

I've done all I can and right now I actually hope that a terrorist blows something up to divert the attention of the media and their sheeple away from the shootings and guns. Seeing as how the average liberal's mind can only seem to focus on one thing at a time, it may work.

But we're all forgetting one key point to all this, in order to ban an assault rifle they must first define it! And by definition an assault rifle MUST have selective fire. Now I don't know about you all but I have never in my 30 years on this rock seen a rifle sold that had such a feature.

Just saying!

[jdonovan]

But we're all forgetting one key point to all this, in order to ban an assault rifle they must first define it! And by definition an assault rifle MUST have selective fire. Now I don't know about you all but I have never in my 30 years on this rock seen a rifle sold that had such a feature.

You need to get out more...

Last stats from the ATF show 30,000 in VA alone.

[Vigo]

It benefits the government for people to be rendered helpless, because where the private sphere "has failed", that is used to justify greater centralized control. Many of the people in power in Washington love only power and keeping the same. They want power as their career, the way others might be carpenters or masons or doctors. If gun control and greater private helplessness further their ends, then they will support it. At some point then, people are transformed from citizens into subjects. Engaging in the political process as opposition to strict control at this point would be wise and is likely necessary.

[Batty67]

My wife is an elementary school teacher. She Jewish, and a flaming liberal. I love her dearly. The thought of arming her at school is ridiculous. Or anyone except LE or trained security personnel. To merely suggest arming teachers is a horrendously BAD idea. For so very many reasons. For one, the cost would be hideous. You can go from there.

As horrifying as what happened is, preventing another one is truly almost impossible unless we get rid of all guns. And there are 300 million + in the U.S. Not going to happen. I don't want it to happen. So, the *must do something* response is reinstating the AWB, which is pure crap and won't change a thing. But here's the thing: I personally believe it is probable. For starters... It could get worse.

[JC77]

I've already done all of the above suggested in the first post, plus added by state assembly senator and delegate. I've set up a meeting with my local delegate for a face to face chat, wrote my local newspaper as I'm considerably far from Richmond and and led my family as I walked out on my fill-in Pastor who suggested during last Sunday's message that out of "Godly love we should consider gun control." What a freaking moron. Our normal Pastor is still recovering from mesothelioma experimental surgery.

I will not tolerate any appeasement or concession. I will not turn a blind eye at any political level on this knee jerk bs or the forgive nor forget the weak kneed bs that the NRA has shown as leadership. I am not simply protecting my 2nd Amendment rights, but my children's rights (who by the way have also written letters to our representatives).

[VBshooter]

Agree with all here,,I ,like you have mailed, talked,called and continue daily to keep this matter in the forefront of conversations with other gun owners and freedom loveing people..The antis do not operate on logic or sense.They use emotion, fear and ignorance to promote an agenda to appease only them. Obama and his ilk want this ban to occur for their self promoting political propoganda machine. WE as gun owners and supporters of the Constituion have a duty to resist this attack on us any way we can, No person who loves their freedoms can sit idly by ,lest they choose to remain silent forever,,,,,,,

[SHMIV]

Just writing representatives probably isn't enough. Our culture is changing, which means that the general attitude of the average citizen is changing.

KaosDad mentioned the idea of organizing open-carry functions, which is good. But, (I know that I sound like a broken record, here... I keep saying this, lol) I really think that those who carry on a regular basis, anyway, should carry openly at least once a week.

We've got a lot of fellow citizens who don't have much of an opinion on guns, one way or another. But, with the media presenting tragic events the way they do, with the media presenting guns and gun owners the way that they do, these folks who are on the fence are very easily swayed in the wrong direction. So many folks have NO exposure to guns, outside of what they see in movies, on the news, or an officers side-arm. These people need to see armed citizens walking around. They need to see that it's possible for the average citizen to have a gun and NOT shoot someone on a whim.

If we all started to openly carry on a more frequent basis, that would make a difference in swaying the culture back our way.

[SilentServiceVet]

I have written to Sen. Warner and Rep. Wittman. Fortunately, I already know where Rob Wittman stands. He is a model of conservative values, and will not back the pending AWB due to be introduced in early January. As I wrote in another thread, the new AWB bill will no doubt pass the Senate, but die in the House. What I think will happen next is the POTUS will issue an Executive Order to ban so-called "assault weapons" (which is a misnomer, anyway), and blame Congress' inability to act while he once again wipes his a** with our Constitution.

[Reverenddel]

I've been up for 4 days after working a full shift at work, writing letters, countering arguments on Yahoo, CNN, and Fox...

I've sent e-mail trees, forums, and other gun groups...

I'm tired. I ain't stopping. I saw a guy go into Best Buy open carrying, no one said a thing to him to my knowledge.

I walked Carytown today, concealed. But not really "hiding" it.

[JC77]

I have written to Sen. Warner and Rep. Wittman. Fortunately, I already know where Rob Wittman stands. He is a model of conservative values, and will not back the pending AWB due to be introduced in early January. As I wrote in another thread, the new AWB bill will no doubt pass the Senate, but die in the House. What I think will happen next is the POTUS will issue an Executive Order to ban so-called "assault weapons" (which is a misnomer, anyway), and blame Congress' inability to act while he once again wipes his a** with our Constitution.

My congressman, too. I have received a hard copy reply today, but it is vague enough that I will now call and speak to him in person soon.

Here is his reply to me:

http://vagunforum.net/general-discussio ... 15773.html

[seeknulfind]

Thanks to all who read and all who replied. It helps me to know I am not standing alone.

Kelu, I haven't been around much these past few months due degrading to dial-up and looking for work, but I've read a couple of your posts and I welcome your unique perspective and thoughtful insights.

I agree with your assessments concerning Dems and Republicans. While I've considered myself a lifelong Republican, the party long ago abandoned my core beliefs as well as those they pay lip service to. It IS all about power to them. Power and re-election. And I blame me for that.

I have not been active. I have not been vocal. I have not participated. For me, this stops now. There's a saying about politics - "All politics is local politics". I am just now starting to understand the truth of this.

We ALL need a political base to make our voices heard. Yes, this is cliche, but there IS strength in numbers. We need to gather locally, unite in one voice and make that voice heard. The Tea Party Movement started out that way. Recently I visited their VA website. I was impressed by the extent of their organization and saddened by the impression that they have already turned from a grassroots organization to a top-down entity. FYI - the "Tea Party" is not a political party, per se, but a movement within the Republican party. I never became a part of that. I may or may not in the future.

Meanwhile, I recently came across some ideas about rebuilding the party from the ground up. The basic plan was to start at the local committee level and build from the grassroots up. I'm convinced this idea has value.

I've already contacted my local party. Thus far the response has been less than enthusiastic. Okay, nil. The next step for me is to download the bylaws to see how I can force the issue. My goal is to build a local network of citizens to voice our concerns and inspire other localities to do the same.

If the party remains unresponsive, I will consider other options, including contacting the Libertarian Party. This party more accurately and consistently reflects my own overall concept of freedom. I hesitate to make a jump for a couple of reasons. The first is pragmatic - it is easier to elect a Republican than a Libertarian. More importantly, I'm convinced my core values are held by most rank and file members in the Republican Party concerning my basic views. The real question is, are there enough people in this party holding the same core values to warrant my efforts?

Now for the exciting part: ask yourself, why aren't YOU more active?

For most of us this boils down to time and, well, effort. I hate to admit it but I'm lazy. At least, after putting in a full day, the last thing I want to do is go to some meeting at 7PM that will last way past my bedtime. Yep. That's exciting all right. Okay, bear with me wise guy...

The exciting part is this: today's technology can make make it easier and less time-consuming to stay active. Think about it. Staying informed has never been easier. I mean, I've never had much time for Twitter, but it can be a powerful means to keep a lot of people up to the second on important issues. A couple of years ago, we'd all need to spend considerable time in front of a computer to stay in touch. It won't be long before we are all connected via smart phones and tablets.

And to think, my local party does not even have a web site.

Even so, we can use this technology to connect NOW. The left is ahead of us at this point but that can be turned around in a nanosecond.

It won't happen overnight. And we can't all implement this right away. I mean, I'm back to dial up except when I can snag a broadband connection in town and my own cell phone must be 5 years old by now. But even I will eventually be forced to upgrade.

By all means, carry when you can. Set a sterling example. The gun control nuts like to paint a picture that anytime anyone has a firearm in their hands, the person suddenly turns into a bloodthirsty maniac. We not only need to point out this fallacy - by being a positive and vocal advocate, but we also need to prove this by example.

Andy

[seeknulfind]

My wife is an elementary school teacher. She Jewish, and a flaming liberal. I love her dearly. The thought of arming her at school is ridiculous. Or anyone except LE or trained security personnel. To merely suggest arming teachers is a horrendously BAD idea. For so very many reasons. For one, the cost would be hideous. You can go from there.

I disagree. First, the idea is to arm AND train some teachers and staff - volunteers. Cost? Volunteers would need to supply their own weapons. The program would provide the training. A small stipend might be made available for practice ammo. Compare this to the cost of providing full-time security to every school.

About your wife... having known not a few Jews, both men and women, as well as liberals, and teachers as well, I'll say that arming any combination of these is not entirely out of the question, should they volunteer. Okay, so your wife is not a candidate. This does not make her a bad person, or anything else. But please do not judge every other person in education by her. I was on staff at an elementary school for a while as a computer tech/teaching assistant. I'd volunteer in a heartbeat. I know of several others who would do the same, both in the system where I was employed and in those my own children attended. the school I worked in included an ex-cop (and a very capable individual), a former Army Colonel as well as others. There are, no doubt, capable people in nearly every school. And if not?

Who would know? I think a good part of this idea is deterrent i.e. these shooters are inherent cowards and might look for an easier target if they knew someone could be shooting back. In reality, I'd very much doubt if there would be many, if any, schools that could not come up with some volunteer.

Horrendous? Maybe you would reconsider?

Andy

[Kreutz]

Been writing the politicians, lost a few friends on FB, gained a few more on FB, and finally caved and started using fckin Twitter which I've resisted to this point.

I've been urging people to simultaneously stress existing gun laws, that new ones will only harm safety and the abolishment of "gun free zones" on public property.

In all honestly not a single one of the proposed new laws/bans would even affect me.

I don't own a semi-auto rifle and none of my handguns can even hold 11 rounds, but thats not the point, an attack on one segment of gun owners must be viewed as an attack on all. Plus you know, where does it stop? Today its 30+ capacity, why not 20+ next year or 5+ the year after? Conceding an inch now only guarantees losing the whole field.

[dusterdude]

You got that right!!!