Dont Execute Burglars

[Kreutz]

http://www.wday.com/event/article/id/71799/

LITTLE FALLS, Minn. (AP) — A Minnesota homeowner who shot two teenagers in the midst of an apparent Thanksgiving Day break-in told authorities he feared they had a weapon, but acknowledged firing "more shots than I needed to" and appeared to take pride in "a good clean finishing shot" for one teen, according to investigators.


Byron David Smith, 64, was charged Monday with two counts of second-degree murder in a criminal complaint that was chilling for the clinical way investigators said he described the shootings.


Smith told investigators he shot 18-year-old Haile Kifer several times as she descended a stairway into his basement, and his Mini 14 rifle jammed as he tried to shoot her again after she had tumbled down the steps.


Though Kifer was "already hurting," she let out a short laugh, Smith told investigators. He then pulled out his .22-caliber revolver and shot her several times in the chest, according to the complaint.


"If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again," Smith told investigators, according to a criminal complaint filed Monday.


Smith was also charged in the death of Kifer's cousin, 17-year-old Nicholas Schaeffel.

In the complaint, Smith said he was in his basement when he heard a window breaking upstairs, followed by footsteps that eventually approached the basement stairwell. Smith said he fired when Schaeffel came into view from the waist down.


After the teen fell down the stairs, Smith said he shot him in the face as he lay on the floor.


"I want him dead," the complaint quoted Smith telling an investigator.


Smith said he dragged Schaeffel's body into his basement workshop, then sat down on his chair. After a few minutes, Kifer began coming down the stairs and he shot her as soon as her hips appeared, he said.


After shooting her with both the Mini 14 and the .22-caliber revolver, he dragged her next to Schaeffel. With her still gasping for air, he fired a shot under her chin "up into the cranium," the complaint says.


"Smith described it as 'a good clean finishing shot,'" according to the complaint.


The next day he asked a neighbor to recommend a good lawyer, according to the complaint. He later asked his neighbor to call the police.

More at link, kind of an interesting read, I don't think this guy "was all there" mentally.

[OakRidgeStars]

A bad situation all around. But it does reinforce one good point; don't mess with old people. They will shoot you.

[ShotgunBlast]

Wow, that seems a bit excessive. I get the feeling he's scratching something off his bucket list.

[GeneFrenkle]

Hmmm.... the Mini-14 jammed? It'd be interesting to know why that happened.

[SpanishInquisition]

Ummm.. yeah. I think the homeowner went past the self-defense line a wee tad. I also get the impression that gramps didn't call the cops himself.

[MrJog]

I think he was justified. I don't think it is right to charge him for murder, just because he was happy about it. Maybe it is strange that he enjoyed the act of killing. But I don't think that should be the deciding factor in whether or not to charge him. He could not have known what they had on their agenda. I would fight tooth and nail for him I were on that jury.

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[Reverenddel]

Personally? I follow the "Excuse me officer, but I'm a bit shook up. Can we continue this questioning later, when I've calmed down, and I have legal representation to make sure I'm not sued, or arrested falsely." statement.

[MrJog]

The thought of having to be afraid of defending myself really pisses me off. Legal action must be conducted based on circumstance and not personality.

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[dorminWS]

Finishing a teenage girl who's already down and incapacitated off with a head shot is NOT self-defense. If you think that's not murder, my advice is to forget you own a firearm until you've tyaken some courses that address these issues.

[misawa]

...but acknowledged firing "more shots than I needed to" and appeared to take pride in "a good clean finishing shot"...

I am not a lawyer, but these statements might be what did him in. Had he kept his mouth shut and let the physical evidence speak for itself, probably wouldn't be talking about it.

[Alex]

Finishing a teenage girl who's already down and incapacitated off with a head shot is NOT self-defense. If you think that's not murder, my advice is to forget you own a firearm until you've tyaken some courses that address these issues.

This.

Anyone with any kind of defensive firearms training knows that you are trained to STOP THE THREAT. This does not mean Stop the threat, then walk up and execute them.

If the threat is down and no longer continuing the attack, then you stop shooting. Period. No if's, and's or but's about it.

I will give you everything in his statement (if it can be believed, since there appear to be no other witnesses) up until that. However, once you cross that line, you can and should be charged.

[MrJog]

I have no sympathy for these scum bags. At 17 and 18 years of age they knew what they were doing. It makes me sick, all the trash that are willing to take advantage of other people, with so little regard to the consequences.

If I am in a situation where an intruder is approaching me after hearing gun shots. I am most definently considering that individual armed and also a threat until they are no longer breathing.

My advice is, let's not give eachother advice. To suggest that one requires training because they have an opinion that is different from yours, is a lame attempt at a passive agressive insult. It would be like me suggesting that you take some courses on how to not present yourself as being douchebag. However, I would prefer to discuss the incident rather than continue to snipe at eachother so don't expect another response like this from me.

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[Snakester]

When someone crosses the line and breaks into Your home all rules go out of the door. This man made two mistakes...1 He talked too much...2 Didn't keep his Mini 14 cleaned and oiled !

[MrJog]

I agree with Snake.

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[Reverenddel]

Ditto.

[dorminWS]

I'm not criticizing y'alls opinion about this. Neither did I or do I seek to insult (although if I did, there is NO DOUBT I could do so decisively and unequivocally – I’m actually quite good at it). I'm pointing out that there is pretty close to a ZERO chance that the investigating officers and the Commonwealth's Attorney would SHARE your opinion on this matter no matter what the shooter did or did not say after the shooting. Fact is that this is about the law and our opinions just do not matter much. The use of deadly force in excess of what is required to safeguard the lives of yourself and others will get your ass charged with murder (or some form of homicide, at least) just about every time. That ain't an opinion. It's a statistic. The “advice” I offered was just a kindly admonition for someone to become better informed before they got themselves into a crap-load of trouble. But hey; it’s a free country; y’all do as you please. I certainly won’t risk giving further offense on this thread.

[mamabearCali]

I find that he was pleased about it really disturbing. I carry a gun, but it would be a very bad day that i was forced to take human life.

.However had he kept his mouth shut he would prob not have been charged.....now.....well I would guess he will face something. Not too bright.

That is why being a burglar is bad career choice. You may be big and bad, but there is always a bigger fish.

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[GeneFrenkle]

When someone crosses the line and breaks into Your home all rules go out of the door. This man made two mistakes...1 He talked too much...2 Didn't keep his Mini 14 cleaned and oiled !

You need to clean a mini?

[Sensai]

Anybody consider that the guy may have been scared and in shock when he made those statements? I don't see anything about how and even if the burglers were armed. If somebody that I've shot "several times" still has a gun in their hand, they get shot some more! We don't have enough information to be judging this man, but the minute the scumbags broke into his house, they've judged themselves.

[SpanishInquisition]

Perhaps, but if grandpa drug the second intruder around a bit and then was able to put the gun under her chin and fire a brain pan shot, she was obviously not a threat to his well being before the trigger was pulled or when he commenced dragging.