More injustice from cops

[mamabearCali]

I'm not sure I understand your post. Are you saying that all who act in "self defense" should be arrested until it can be proven that it was, indeed, self defense? If you would do that for police, it should apply to all.

I didn't watch the video...it has nothing to prove or disprove the police action in this case.

I would not want that. I do not even want this fellow to be arrested yet. It is of course possible that the reports are wrong and his arm was stuck and he only fired one shot and was entirely justified in this terrible situation.

What I think is rankling some of us is that we know if we defended our lives in even half as dubious of a situation as this we would be in jail and our name would have been released. We would have already been tried convicted and sentenced in the eyes of the press. I am not saying that he should have that happen to him. Just saying there is an incredible double standard that is getting so wide it is starting to stink.

[CCFan]

I guess I should be thankful for living in an area where if someone breaks in and gets shot, the county typically doesn't bat an eye.... I'm not sure where everyone lives where people who defend themselves legally get thrown through the ringer, but I'm glad I don't live there!

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[WRW]

I guess I should be thankful for living in an area where if someone breaks in and gets shot, the county typically doesn't bat an eye.... I'm not sure where everyone lives where people who defend themselves legally get thrown through the ringer, but I'm glad I don't live there!

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I know of only one case like that around here. An old fellow got locked up for a couple of days while a determination was made to not prosecute. That was around 1990.

[SgtBill]

Again I must tell everyone here that you can't jump to an conclusion in this or any other case without a total and complete investigation. You do not know if the so called witness has an ax to grind with the Police or this particular Officer. You do not know if this Police Officer was haveing an affair with the deceased and has just comitted a Homicide to cover up the same. How about giveing it some time and let a full and honest investigation be done without the hurry up and screw up the investigation comeing into play. I only responded in the original post as to what was posted and what I could hear on the interview. I have had and heard many hundreds of interviews over my 25 year career and I know for a fact that what is said can and or will change 24 or more hrs. later and a good investigator knows this and will re-interview a witness if they can be found and see if the story still bears weight.
Bill

[mk4]

it's been 34 days, Bill.
in your experience, and based upon the little info available, is this a normal or overly long investigation?

also, i still see no report of the witness ever saying the officer's arm was in the window, whether in the linked video or other press reports. that has only been reported by the vsp.

[Kreutz]

What I think is rankling some of us is that we know if we defended our lives in even half as dubious of a situation as this we would be in jail and our name would have been released. We would have already been tried convicted and sentenced in the eyes of the press. I am not saying that he should have that happen to him. Just saying there is an incredible double standard that is getting so wide it is starting to stink.

One standard for us proles and another for the ones "sworn to uphold (but not really obey) the law" a free society is not.

I don't hate cops, but I distrust them intensely as a group. Anyone who isn't wary of people who can shoot you point blank in broad daylight and get off scot free is very trusting or has a screw loose.

[CCFan]

it's been 34 days, Bill.
in your experience, and based upon the little info available, is this a normal or overly long investigation?

Your statement sums it up. How exactly do you put together a 3,000 piece jigsaw puzzle when you only have 47 pieces? Do you even know what the picture is?

I'm not in the line of law enforcement, but you're trying to pigeonhole all investigations based on one incident. That's like judging all actors by O. J. Simpson, or saying that all TV shows are like Dallas. Every single investigation is different - some have an overabundance of evidence, some have hardly any evidence, and just because a person may or may not have done something, unless you have the proverbial smoking gun that is irrefutable, then what good does it do to rush into a situation that could go bad because emotions got in the way of logic?

I understand you're upset - but really, can we let the people who's job it is to investiage do their job and quit second guessing them?

[mk4]

it's been 34 days, Bill.
in your experience, and based upon the little info available, is this a normal or overly long investigation?

Your statement sums it up. How exactly do you put together a 3,000 piece jigsaw puzzle when you only have 47 pieces? Do you even know what the picture is?

I'm not in the line of law enforcement, but you're trying to pigeonhole all investigations based on one incident. That's like judging all actors by O. J. Simpson, or saying that all TV shows are like Dallas. Every single investigation is different - some have an overabundance of evidence, some have hardly any evidence, and just because a person may or may not have done something, unless you have the proverbial smoking gun that is irrefutable, then what good does it do to rush into a situation that could go bad because emotions got in the way of logic?

I understand you're upset - but really, can we let the people who's job it is to investiage do their job and quit second guessing them?

the vsp has had all the info for a good while now. the public may only have "47 pieces", but they've got all "3000".

to be clear, i was asking Bill, who does have a LE background, what his professional opinion was on general length of investigation, based on his personal experience. i was also asking him for clarification on his interpretation of a statement in the public record. nothing wrong with that. he's an expert. he's capable of expert opinion. if anything, i'm trying to learn something rather than knee-jerk.

if you wanna see upset people, go look at the culpeper pd fb page. both on the anti and pro side. also, if you follow the news, you'll understand that culpeper doesn't have the best rep in their justice system. the ca just resigned over a federal court ruling overturning a wrongful murder conviction. the current sheriff was the lead investigator. the federal judge was pretty scathing of their actions and tactics.

all in all, i think this thread has been fairly civil...

[SgtBill]

it's been 34 days, Bill.
in your experience, and based upon the little info available, is this a normal or overly long investigation?

Your statement sums it up. How exactly do you put together a 3,000 piece jigsaw puzzle when you only have 47 pieces? Do you even know what the picture is?

I'm not in the line of law enforcement, but you're trying to pigeonhole all investigations based on one incident. That's like judging all actors by O. J. Simpson, or saying that all TV shows are like Dallas. Every single investigation is different - some have an overabundance of evidence, some have hardly any evidence, and just because a person may or may not have done something, unless you have the proverbial smoking gun that is irrefutable, then what good does it do to rush into a situation that could go bad because emotions got in the way of logic?

I understand you're upset - but really, can we let the people who's job it is to investiage do their job and quit second guessing them?

the vsp has had all the info for a good while now. the public may only have "47 pieces", but they've got all "3000".

to be clear, i was asking Bill, who does have a LE background, what his professional opinion was on general length of investigation, based on his personal experience. i was also asking him for clarification on his interpretation of a statement in the public record. nothing wrong with that. he's an expert. he's capable of expert opinion. if anything, i'm trying to learn something rather than knee-jerk.

if you wanna see upset people, go look at the culpeper pd fb page. both on the anti and pro side. also, if you follow the news, you'll understand that culpeper doesn't have the best rep in their justice system. the ca just resigned over a federal court ruling overturning a wrongful murder conviction. the current sheriff was the lead investigator. the federal judge was pretty scathing of their actions and tactics.

all in all, i think this thread has been fairly civil...

Well I will have to tell you that CCF sums it up purty good about the investigation. I would have spent several week's if not months on an investigation of this nature. First off the witness that has come foreward will also have to standup to a background investigation to make sure that he is not just grand standing for the spotlight Etc. One can not rush an investigation of any sort in the pursuit for the truth no matter where the chips may fly. I always believed that if you tried to prove a case against someone of this nature then you should try and disprove it just as hard and the truth will emerge . I would not let myself or the people that worked for me go into court with a case that could or would blowup in our faces,each and every piece of evidence had to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. One must remember that not only will it be tried in court but also in the court of public opinion and these are all people that will stand behind the Police or be anti police.
Yes it might take more then a year to give this case the proper investigation and cross all the t's and dot all the i's.
Bill

[Newgunguy]

So another one that I found from another site.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fk6GFiUa9c

and..

http://reason.com/blog/2012/01/16/melbo ... nd-taser-a

Now for all these people here that say just sit back and let these corrupt people take their time to investigate is CRAP!! Just another case of the NAZI system at work in this country again, if everyone was a sheep like you we would be living in more of a dictatorship than we are now. If you watch the video and read about this case this is just way to much. First the cop steps towards this guy and front kicks him and then goes about cat fighting with him like a little $%tch, then another Nazi stormtrooper comes up and tazes him point blank. Then the officer charges him with assault on a cop, until the video is supposedly recovered. It's reported that the cop had tried to turn off his camera, but they were able to get video from it? WTF is that? Anyone ever been able to do that? How about maybe watch tv with it off? So they say this cop tried to turn off his camera to beat this guy and he still has his job? Or did they say that to give this cop a reprimand to try and make it look like they care. It's just sick, this guy doesn't look like he could have resisted holding in a FART, let alone getting kicked in the guts and still be bale to fight. To bad there aren't any riots anymore from cops doing stuff like this like out in LA, but I feel that it's coming and will be soon enough.

Charles.

[Kreutz]

So another one that I found from another site.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fk6GFiUa9c

and..

http://reason.com/blog/2012/01/16/melbo ... nd-taser-a

Now for all these people here that say just sit back and let these corrupt people take their time to investigate is CRAP!! Just another case of the NAZI system at work in this country again, if everyone was a sheep like you we would be living in more of a dictatorship than we are now. If you watch the video and read about this case this is just way to much. First the cop steps towards this guy and front kicks him and then goes about cat fighting with him like a little $%tch, then another Nazi stormtrooper comes up and tazes him point blank. Then the officer charges him with assault on a cop, until the video is supposedly recovered. It's reported that the cop had tried to turn off his camera, but they were able to get video from it? WTF is that? Anyone ever been able to do that? How about maybe watch tv with it off? So they say this cop tried to turn off his camera to beat this guy and he still has his job? Or did they say that to give this cop a reprimand to try and make it look like they care. It's just sick, this guy doesn't look like he could have resisted holding in a FART, let alone getting kicked in the guts and still be bale to fight. To bad there aren't any riots anymore from cops doing stuff like this like out in LA, but I feel that it's coming and will be soon enough.

Charles.

Police police the police, hence the problem. Foxes guarding the henhouse.

I think the answer although imperfect is dissolution of appointed police forces and reverting back to solely elected sheriffs who live in the area they police, as well their deputies. This would at least ensure some measure of accountability and I imagine a reduction in police brutality since you lessen the anonymity on both sides.

Might not work too well in these populous spread out times though.

[mamabearCali]

I can see how that would work rurally, but not so sure about cities. Could get really complicated.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[mk4]

anyone see this one?
http://www.lawofficer.com/video/news/oh ... gated-afte

[SHMIV]

I think the answer although imperfect is dissolution of appointed police forces and reverting back to solely elected sheriffs who live in the area they police, as well their deputies. This would at least ensure some measure of accountability and I imagine a reduction in police brutality since you lessen the anonymity on both sides.

Might not work too well in these populous spread out times though.

Imperfect solution, yes. And Mamabear is right that it could get complicated in the cities.

But, the idea does have merit, and is worth a more in depth look.

[mk4]

back to the top.
42 days (6 full weeks) and still nothing. this is not going to go away...

[SgtBill]

back to the top.
42 days (6 full weeks) and still nothing. this is not going to go away...

Again 46 day's for this type of investigation is nothing. When I worked in internal affairs I had spent more then six mos. on an investigation where a Police Officer was charged by a civilian with a racial remark that was supposedly said to or at the person. It took this long because the cop had a long suspension or loss of his job on the line and he had the right to have the best investigation that I could do the same as any civilian.
P.S. My investigation showed that the Police Officer was a stone Racist from the time he was in grade school all the way through his military time in the Navy and the charges were upheld. He was suspended for 30 day's and had to go to mandatory clases dealing with treatment of other types of races, religion's etc. Or leave the Dept.
Bill

[allingeneral]

back to the top.
42 days (6 full weeks) and still nothing. this is not going to go away...

Again 46 day's for this type of investigation is nothing. When I worked in internal affairs I had spent more then six mos. on an investigation where a Police Officer was charged by a civilian with a racial remark that was supposedly said to or at the person. It took this long because the cop had a long suspension or loss of his job on the line and he had the right to have the best investigation that I could do the same as any civilian.
P.S. My investigation showed that the Police Officer was a stone Racist from the time he was in grade school all the way through his military time in the Navy and the charges were upheld. He was suspended for 30 day's and had to go to mandatory clases dealing with treatment of other types of races, religion's etc. Or leave the Dept.
Bill

Bill - I appreciate your input on this thread. You've tossed some really good information into the mix. Thanks!

[Newgunguy]

Well another collection of some videos about cops from an interesting site. Still waiting to hear something about the culpper incident. Whats going to finish first, the trayvon one or the white teacher getting shot in the back? To bad there isn't any clan to put a bounty out on this cops head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... TPucQHtHZs

http://www.barstoolsports.com/philly/su ... or-us-all/

[mamabearCali]

Well another collection of some videos about cops from an interesting site. Still waiting to hear something about the culpper incident. Whats going to finish first, the trayvon one or the white teacher getting shot in the back? To bad there isn't any clan to put a bounty out on this cops head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... TPucQHtHZs

http://www.barstoolsports.com/philly/su ... or-us-all/

I really hope this is hyperbole. I don't want anyone to put bounties on anyone's head. I just want justice in both situations. I remain hopeful, but it worries me that in the culpepper incident they are waiting until this is forgotten and then are going to try to sweep this under the rug. The Sunday School teacher deserves the truth to come out too. If she really did roll the officers arm up into a window, the officer was justified in shooting out the window, but perhaps not so much on the alleged follow up shots. I am in favor of the truth in both situation.

[mk4]

...The Sunday School teacher deserves the truth to come out too. If she really did roll the officers arm up into a window, the officer was justified in shooting out the window, but perhaps not so much on the alleged follow up shots.

52 days, and counting...
and before anyone posts it again, i'll do it preemptively, "you have to be patient. it could be 52 weeks, or 52 months... it takes time."

anyone notice that the facebook link posted previously:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Culpeper- ... 3188820171
is now gone? i'd been checking it regularly and the comments there made this thread downright polite. guess the cpd couldn't handle the outrage any longer.