Looking for some advice about a situation over the weekend

[quickdraw]

Over the weekend I was out with my family at a restaurant and as were sitting there chatting in walks 2 young guys open carrying and another guy who didn't appear to be carrying a weapon. After they sat down and ordered their drinks, I noticed one of the guys open carrying blatantly sipping on a bottle of Coors Light. Then the conversation came up at my table about drinking and OC and I mentioned how it was illegal.

My question is, do you think I should have confronted the guys and told them that they shouldn't have been drinking while they were OC'ing? What would you have done in that situation? I myself was CC'ing at that time but by no means did I want to start any trouble with what looked to be a couple of careless dudes.

[Chasbo00]

Why do you think OCing while drinking is illegal?

[mk4]

@quickdraw...
drinking alcohol in an establishment that serves while openly carrying is not illegal in va. now if you ask me if it's a responsible or smart thing to do, my answer would be 'no'. that's my opinion and stance on the subject, but regardless of how i conduct myself, there is no statute on the books criminalizing it.

carrying while intoxicated is another matter, but i can't put my finger on the statute at the moment. i'll post again when i find it.

[OakRidgeStars]

Begin at section J1, most of specific code is at J3

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-308

[mk4]

Thanks, ORS.
That surely covers consuming or intoxication while cc'ing. I still need to find a cite to the bill in front of the GA designed to address intoxication while carrying openly. Not sure if it has passed, was killed or tabled for the session.

[quickdraw]

I read J1 and J3 and obviously those paragraphs pertain to Concealed Carry but I don't understand how it is unlawful to consume an alcoholic beverage while CC'ing but would not be unlawful to consume alcoholic beverages while OC'ing.

[Alex]

Going to throw my 2 cents in here.

Firstly, as far as I know it, it is NOT illegal to drink while OC. Right or wrong doesn't really factor in to it, legally speaking. As to if I think it's a good Idea, I'm in the same camp as Mk4: Absolutely not. In my honest opinion, guns and alcohol don't mix.

Secondly, I would strongly advise against confronting anyone carrying a firearm. Doubly so if your family is with you. You don't know this person, you don't know anything about them (Short of the fact that they are consuming alcohol and carrying a weapon.) Speak to them, sure. Confront them, while accusing them of breaking the law? Maybe not the smartest idea.

I think you made the smart choice, by avoiding a conflict with these individuals.

Just my thoughts.
-Alex

[mk4]

I read J1 and J3 and obviously those paragraphs pertain to Concealed Carry but I don't understand how it is unlawful to consume an alcoholic beverage while CC'ing but would not be unlawful to consume alcoholic beverages while OC'ing.

just one of those legal twists. the bill i'm looking for was meant to address this very disconnect, among other things. when i find it, i'll post the citation.

found it. SB648. died in committee.
summary: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... +sum+SB648
full mark-up: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... +ful+SB648

[quickdraw]

@ Alex - I agree with both you and MK4 that in no way should anyone carrying a firearm be consuming alcohol. During the discussion with my family, the topic of perception came up. To me, it seems that if you are in a crowded restaurant OC'ing and drinking, people may get the wrong impression of all people who carry firearms. Other people may perceive that people who carry firearms don't mind getting drunk while they're carrying a weapon. They might even get worried that some drunk is carrying a firearm, call the police, and start problems that could have otherwise have been avoided.

I'm just throwing out my opinions on the matter. I don't want to see foolish people ruin it for others. But like you said, I figured confronting them about it or even saying anything at all would cause more problems in the long run for everyone and that it would be best to leave it alone and "monday morning quarterback" it here.

[mk4]

@quickdraw...
not to mention that not all leos know all of the law. the mwag call against an oc'er consuming alcohol in a restaurant that serves can, and has, resulted in arrest and holding while things get sorted out with a magistrate.

as i listened to the debate in the senate coj committee on the bill i cited, there was a speaker from the public, who voiced opposition. he recounted being in a restaurant while waiting for a bus, sipping one beer. a leo came in and hauled him downtown and confiscated his firearm. took hours to be released with no charges, because he didn't break the law, and then weeks to get his firearm back.

was he drunk? not likely from sipping one beer.
was it worth all the hassle he went through? absolutely not, imho.
was it a mistake in discretion? absolutely, imho.

[Chingon]

Mama said put your two hands on your butt. If you can fit anything else in those hands, take care of that too! Life is too short to police the world. Raise your family right and it will police itself.

[Chasbo00]

I read J1 and J3 and obviously those paragraphs pertain to Concealed Carry but I don't understand how it is unlawful to consume an alcoholic beverage while CC'ing but would not be unlawful to consume alcoholic beverages while OC'ing.

Trying to apply logic to gun laws huh, no wonder you were mistaken.

[ProShooter]

I read J1 and J3 and obviously those paragraphs pertain to Concealed Carry but I don't understand how it is unlawful to consume an alcoholic beverage while CC'ing but would not be unlawful to consume alcoholic beverages while OC'ing.

Very easy. The law says that its illegal to drink and CC. The purpose of a law, is to prohibit something. The law prohibits drinking while CC'ing. Since the law doesn't address OC, there is nothing illegal about it.

If the law said you couldnt wear a purple shirt on Tuesday, but you wore a red shirt on Tuesday, are you breaking the law? Nope.


To add to that, as others have said, confronting anyone with a gun is dumb. Confronting someone with a gun about laws that you are not 100% certain about, is stupid. That will get you in trouble, or at the very least severely embarassed.

[BW1911]

... someone was "blatantly" sipping a beer but not, apparently, breaking a law.... so far, so good.

+1 on ProShooters comment re confrontations... if someone is leaving you alone, return the courtesy and leave them alone. ESPECIALLY if you are armed, you need to develop a serenity and a sense of discretion that overrides the impulse to lecture people or to confront people over less than life-or-death issues.

Nothing to see here... move on...

[Diomed]

The deep damage inflicted on the national psyche by the prohibitionists continues to this very day.

I hope you're rotting in hell, Carrie Nation.

[quickdraw]

@ proshooter - I guess I didn't look at the law in that sense but I understand it better now that you explain it in that way. That was another reason I wasn't too keen on saying something to the guys because I wasn't 100% sure that I was right on the law. I'm a MD'er who moved here back in '10 and I've been trying to learn the laws down here as best as I can. It's hard coming from such a Commie state into a state where gun laws are much more relaxed and guns are much more accepted.

I appreciate all of the comments and insight.....It has definitely helped me understand the law better!

[Proudtobeararms]

No, generally I find it better not to confront groups of men with guns while they are drinking. Not usualy a fun outcome for anyone...duh

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[TenchCoxe]

It's not illegal to consume alcohol while OC. CC, yes, but OC, no.

I submit there is a decided difference between sipping at a Coors Light and getting sh*tfaced drunk.

I can't find it now, but just a few days ago here, there was a link to an excellent post at another forum, about acting in self-defense. One of the things that guy wrote was something along the lines of "if you can't be trusted with a gun after drinking a beer, then you probably can't be trusted with one sober, and there is no help for you," or words to similar effect.

For me, anyhow, I know that sipping a Coors Light with my dinner is not going to result in taking in sufficient alcohol in a short enough period of time that it's going to cloud my judgment or anything.

After all, isn't it quite common for people to have a beer or two with dinner in a restaurant and then immediately go operate a motor vehicle, with their whole family in it?

If the guy was just sitting there sipping a Coors Light, seems to me to be no big deal. And it's legal in VA. If he was pounding whiskey shooters, maybe I could see that becoming a problem.

[TenchCoxe]

Found it:

Also if you can not be trusted with a pistol after a few drinks you can't be trusted with a pistol period. Booze is liquid bad judgment no doubt but it shouldn't make you into a damn moron. If you are a moron sober I don't know what to tell you.

I kinda liked that.

[dorminWS]

It's not illegal to consume alcohol while OC. CC, yes, but OC, no.

I submit there is a decided difference between sipping at a Coors Light and getting sh*tfaced drunk.

I can't find it now, but just a few days ago here, there was a link to an excellent post at another forum, about acting in self-defense. One of the things that guy wrote was something along the lines of "if you can't be trusted with a gun after drinking a beer, then you probably can't be trusted with one sober, and there is no help for you," or words to similar effect.

For me, anyhow, I know that sipping a Coors Light with my dinner is not going to result in taking in sufficient alcohol in a short enough period of time that it's going to cloud my judgment or anything.

After all, isn't it quite common for people to have a beer or two with dinner in a restaurant and then immediately go operate a motor vehicle, with their whole family in it?

If the guy was just sitting there sipping a Coors Light, seems to me to be no big deal. And it's legal in VA. If he was pounding whiskey shooters, maybe I could see that becoming a problem.

...................................
Hey, TC, I hate to tell you this, but I'm a little worried about whether a guy who has such poor judgment about beer that he drinks Coors Light ought to be trusted with a pistol.