Concealed Carry in Pennsylvania

[Moccasin]

Went to my wife's family reunion on Saturday, August 1. 5 of us in the vehicle, 3 of us had VA CHP's and had concealed weapons. My daughter-in-law doesn't yet have a permit so she didn't carry and my 3 year old grand-daughter obviously isn't old enough yet, I'm sure she will though when she finally turns 21 assuming we haven't lost our rights by then.

I thought that someone might figure out we had handguns at the reunion, not that it would have made any difference to me if they had. Being that they are yankees I never know how they will react to anything I do, even after 26 years of marriage. We didn't try real hard to conceal, just pulled our shirt tails over our firearms and made a bulge.

We were legal in VA, WV, and PA. That left just one state that could be a problem, MD. For 2 miles we had to disarm. While I don't think it would have done us any good for the federal government to force states to recognize our permits, disarming for a 2 mile stretch is a bit ridiculous IMO. To be on the safe side though, we did. Crossing into Hancock MD you cross a long bridge at 35 mph, MD LEO's like this bridge because they have a captive audience so to speak so it was in our best interest to be legal. So, about 1/2 mile from the line we pulled over, emptied the firearms, then locked them in a small lock box I bought specifically for this purpose (no trunk in the vehicle). Crossed through MD and stopped at the first rest area to rearm.

The only times there was any concern was when we stopped to rearm, once headed north and again when we were headed south. Going we rearmed at a PA rest stop. I parked away from the building in an attempt to be somewhat inconspicuous. That didn't work nearly as well as I hoped it would. Turns out that while rearming someone decided to walk their dog right beside where we were parked. We weren't sure whether we had been seen or not, and we didn't care but we didn't want to get stopped because someone who didn't know the law had called the police. No LEO's came looking for us so I guess he didn't see us or didn't care. On the way home we stopped in PA and locked everything up again. We didn't stop until we were in VA though. Pulled into a gas station and parked away from the building. We rearmed and that is when I thought that if someone was looking out the windows and saw 3 people hiding handguns on their person, they may think they were about to be robbed. When I turned around though I saw that there were no windows on that end of the building.

Everything went well, had a pretty good time with the yankees, and my wife even got to brag to her older brother about having a VA CHP. Turns out he had a PA CHP at one time but let it expire. I know reports indicate more people are applying for CHP's throughout the nation but I'm finding some that let their permits expire "because it's a pain to renew." My brother-in-law in FL did the same thing with his. I don't understand why anyone would let it expire once they havbe one.

[gfost1]

Howdy,

Glad to read that you journey was uneventful regarding the CC.

I'm with you regarding letting the permit expire. No matter what, it is easier to get a renewal. I don't know PA or FL law, but in VA if you let it expire, you have to start from square one to get it back.

Did'ja get a chance to shoot while you were there?

Regards,

George

[Moccasin]

No, didn't get to shoot. Being that it was just a day trip there wasn't time. 6 hours up, 5 hours at the reunion, 6 hours back. Could have made it a shorter trip but I avoid the PA Turnpike like the plague. It may be faster but if there is an accident you can't bail and go around and I get enough white knuckle driving on I95 going to work.

[zephyp]

Glad to hear you guys had a good time Gary. I avoid the PA turnpike too and usually take 68. That turnpike makes me feel trapped.

[Moccasin]

Glad to hear you guys had a good time Gary. I avoid the PA turnpike too and usually take 68. That turnpike makes me feel trapped.

Yeah, trapped between the jersey walls and the tractor trailer that can't stay in it's lane. We took US30, 2 lane back road that parallels the turnpike. I've got to the point that I avoid interstates as often as possible. Even driving to FL I've begun taking US29/301/1 and a couple of state/county roads just to avoid the traffic. My wife says it's like sight seeing, we get to see the sights of dilapidated America. It's a shame, before the limited access highways these roads were it and there were gas stations, hotels, motels, country stores and everything else. Most have had to close because of the lack of traffic but the buildings are still there and falling apart.

[zephyp]

I know what you mean. You really see whats going on in America when you get off the interstate. Young and I have taken a few back roads on some of our trips. It aint pretty. I dont mind most interstates but that turnpike is not a good road.

[lemond]

There should be a service provider for "Auto Renewal" on CHPs. I mean there are already auto pay for credit cards and insurances already, why not CHP?

[newdovo]

Hey Moccasin,
Last month we went to Lancaster, PA for a few days. Before leaving, I decided to research firearm and carry laws for Pennsylvania and Maryland to make sure I was following all the rules. After reading Maryland's laws, particularly concerning handguns, I decided not to take anything along. Pennsylvania would have been fine, once I got there.
My concern with MD laws was their limited scope for allowing transport of a handgun. Back and forth between residences or place of purchase/repair, range trips, collectors going to an exhibition, etc. I know that there is federal preemption law and the Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA), but I felt that this would be more of a defense to use in court rather than a pass if Maryland LEO somehow found that I was in possession of a handgun. I actually thought of making an "appointment" to shoot at a local range in PA and keeping documentation of it, just in case.
If I only had to travel a couple miles through MD, I probably would have handled it as you did. But we had a couple of hours through MD, and the possibility that we would stop to visit family.
Any thoughts on this?
I have to say that it frosts me that something that I can do here in VA every day could potentially make me a criminal just by passing through state lines.

Parry

[VBshooter]

I have driven up to PA many times and brought along a firearm, I have always kept the ammo seperate from the gun and used 2 seperate inaccessible locations, I have never had a traffic stop while doing this but have had friends that have,,, Seems that for a spell a few years ago Virginia Tags were like a magnet to MD LE, When told that there was a legally transported firearm in his car my bud got the third degree, He showed them his weapon and that it was indeed unloaded and seperate from the ammo and also where he could not readily retreive it, His reward for honesty was a call for back up,, his car and luggage ransacked and left strewn all over the side of the road, After assuring themselves that he was not the next Dillinger smuggling machine guns they left him with the task of reloading his car and did not say Have A Nice Day,,,,, So I look at transport through MD as make damn sure you do it legally

[Moccasin]

newdovo,

I'd use the FOPA to travel from the Bay Bridge to Cumberland, MD and beyond if I had to, and dare them to pick me up as long as I'm legal. NYC and NJ are finding out that the FOPA trumps their state and local laws as are other states. I think as long as you meet the requirements of the FOPA I'd go for it traveling across any state. The law says if you have the gun for any legal purpose in the originating state and in the ending state, if open carry is legal or if you have a CHP that is valid in both states then you meet the legal purpose part. Now stopping in MD is a different story, the thought is that short stops are ok under FOPA but I don't think it's been tested much yet. I'd buy a small "safe" or security box (similar to this) to lock the handguns in. The one I bought has a key lock, is fireproof (I don't think fireproof and waterproof really matters in a car) and will hold a CZ100B w/2 magazines, a PT145 w/2 magazines, and a Ruger LCP with room left over.

[Bobtail1911]

Md Sucks.

Go to PA 3-4 times a year. Now I go once a year. Think of all the money I might have spent in MD.

[Moccasin]

Spence,

You're right about making sure you transport it legally in MD, or any state for that matter. The wording of Title 18 Part I Chapter 44 Section 926A does not indicate that the firearm and ammo have to be in 2 seperate locations and in some vehicles they do not have to be inaccessible. In my case there was no possible way for the firearms and ammo to inaccessible from the passenger compartment so I used a lock box to meet the requirements of the law.

"Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."

[VBshooter]

Putting the ammo and gun in seperate spots was my way of a little extra cushion if in the event of a stop the cop wanted to get nasty,, There had been too many horror stories from guys I worked with in PA that had trouble in MD that I wasn;t gonna do anything to help push their buttons,It was easier to just agree and if one was written take the ticket and move on..

[Moccasin]

I had the back of the vehicle pretty full so adding another lock box wasn't really an option. I read the federal law before I left and decided I'd follow it, if they wanted to get pissy then we'd hash it out in court. I carry copies of all relevant laws and reciprical agreements with me when I travel like that so it would have been their call as to whether to make a fool out of themselves or not. I think I'm going to put together a notebook with each state's info from handgunlaw.us and carry that with me too for a quick reference.

[PatriotSkooker]

I live in PA and have had a concealed permit for about 15 years (they're good for 5 years). At first - they were instant issue at any county sheriff but now you've got to wait a few weeks after applying and they're mailed. You're good for six months after the expiration, though. Obtaining one is relatively hassle free and we honor most other states' CCWs....but it does mean a trip to the county courthouse and dealing with their 9 - 4:30 hours.

Living in PA with a CCW is fine....but we're bordered by states that don't play nice (NY, NJ and MD). A few years ago I was in Philly (where I almost always carry) and accidentally got on a bridge that took me over the river into Jersey...with my .45 under the seat. My first thought was - how do I get back across this bridge? Unfortunately - the Jersey side was cluttered with LEO's because there was some type of concert...and they were directing traffic into the parking areas. I was even more conspicuous because I was not following their advice as I just wanted to get back across the bridge. I got out unscathed - I think that the minivan and accompanying family helped out.

The irony in this (and as I read your painstaking work to adhere to the law) is that it is we - the lawful gun owners - that go out of our way and jump through hoops to ensure that we remain legal. We are the ones that suffer because inhabitant and legislatures in other states don't know how to act. It's a real shame.

Here are some good references: http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184
and: http://paopencarry.org/