So, what "percent" are you?

[Kreutz]

I thought this was neat:

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/ ... t-are-you/

That 1% is looking pretty damned elusive!

[dorminWS]

I'm not in the top 1%. If I was, I wouldn't apologize for (1) being there, or (2) wanting to keep what was mine. Natural tendencies of us highly-evolved monkeys. At least we (most of us, at least) have evolved past throwing monkeycrap at the monkeys below us who are trying to climb - - well, except for our tax system and the OWS folks (and the OWS folks throw monkeycrap both up and down the tree - - and a mile in every direction), that is. We are what we are. Can't help it. Don't want to.

[SHMIV]

I'm at the bottom 17%. That said, I own my car out right. I own my shelter outright. I have 3 monthly bills: phone, lot rent, and car insurance.

Some would look at my lifestyle and say that I am poverty stricken. Myself, I say that I am blessed. All of my basic needs are met, and I include gun and ammo in the list of basic needs.

I can even afford some luxuries. My car is a luxury. My cigarettes are a luxury. A couple times a month, I enjoy a good cigar. The other day, I enjoyed a couple of martinis. Phones are a luxury. This computer and the internet are a luxury.

I used to make a lot more money. I made a series of poor decisions, and lost everything. That is not the fault of Wall Street. As much as I loathe Obama, I cannot blame him, either. I am the only one to blame. Further, it is my fault that I dropped out of high school and failed to go to college.

I look at my more successful sister. She also keeps her bills to a minimum. She has actually managed to save money. She goes to school (and she's 30). She even takes silly classes. She goes socializing, much more than I do.

Here's my point: Your lot in life is a direct result of your decisions. I, and my sisters, grew up dirt poor. I remember living in a house with no insulation and holes in the exterior walls, when I was 3. I made some good decisions that took me far from that, and I made some bad ones that brought me closer to that point.

This is the land of opportunity. You may not become a millionaire, but if you learn to live within your means, and be content with what you have, you can certainly be comfortable and even enjoy some luxuries.

[grumpyMSG]

I'm not in the top 1%. If I was, I wouldn't apologize for (1) being there, or (2) wanting to keep what was mine. Natural tendencies of us highly-evolved monkeys. At least we (most of us, at least) have evolved past throwing monkeycrap at the monkeys below us who are trying to climb - - well, except for our tax system and the OWS folks (and the OWS folks throw monkeycrap both up and down the tree - - and a mile in every direction), that is. We are what we are. Can't help it. Don't want to.

I look at them more as the crabs that pull the other crabs, that are trying to climb out of the basket, back into the basket. In a lot of cases they wasted a lot of money on college degrees with no practical application in the world other than academia. Exactly how many jobs are there for people with English or Literature degrees? Yet it seems every month VDOT is advertising for civil engineers. Where we have gone wrong in educating these idiots is the mantra of every kid needs to go to college. This country will always need people capable of doing manual labor, driving trucks, farmers, machinists and so many more jobs. I know here in Virginia there are plenty of warehouse/distribution jobs and they pay pretty decent wages. Then again that would require work and possibly even sweating.

I looked at the little calculator and realize it can't be perfect, but I would have to guess that it is based an a family of four and you would have to make adjustments to account for being single/ the number of kids. Just off the top of my head I know I pay a pretty substantial amount of taxes (in my eyes anyway). Based on the premise that between 47 and 51% of people pay no income tax (depends which source), I am definitely not in the bottom 50%, but I am nowhere near that $500,000 either, so I must be in the 50-99% group who is tired of the bottom 50% not paying anything and doing all the whining.

[Skeptic]

I'm at the bottom 17%. That said, I own my car out right. I own my shelter outright. I have 3 monthly bills: phone, lot rent, and car insurance.

Some would look at my lifestyle and say that I am poverty stricken. Myself, I say that I am blessed. All of my basic needs are met, and I include gun and ammo in the list of basic needs.

I can even afford some luxuries. My car is a luxury. My cigarettes are a luxury. A couple times a month, I enjoy a good cigar. The other day, I enjoyed a couple of martinis. Phones are a luxury. This computer and the internet are a luxury.

I used to make a lot more money. I made a series of poor decisions, and lost everything. That is not the fault of Wall Street. As much as I loathe Obama, I cannot blame him, either. I am the only one to blame. Further, it is my fault that I dropped out of high school and failed to go to college.

I look at my more successful sister. She also keeps her bills to a minimum. She has actually managed to save money. She goes to school (and she's 30). She even takes silly classes. She goes socializing, much more than I do.

Here's my point: Your lot in life is a direct result of your decisions. I, and my sisters, grew up dirt poor. I remember living in a house with no insulation and holes in the exterior walls, when I was 3. I made some good decisions that took me far from that, and I made some bad ones that brought me closer to that point.

This is the land of opportunity. You may not become a millionaire, but if you learn to live within your means, and be content with what you have, you can certainly be comfortable and even enjoy some luxuries.

Spot on

I grew up poor, some due to bad luck my parents had, and a lot due to a series of bad choices they made after that.

I was active in protests and in liberal politics, because I was raised to be quite liberal and see things in terms of class struggle, especially by my honors teachers.

But that just simply ignores the facts. It took a while for me to "get it". We truly live in a world of miracles.

The Occupiers in Richmond say that our society has had hundreds of years to get our act together, so they need to "have a conversation" to "decide the new systems to replace this failed one".

It is sad, they see what we have gained in the past 200 years and deem it a failure. We have health measures from sanitation to thousands of wonder drugs that even most of the poor in our nation can afford. We have expanded our food production (not always for the best) and our ability to share, communicate, and to travel. Electricity. Simple things like running water , hot water on demand! I thank God for those simple things every morning.

Look at the wealth of the average American turn of the 20th century and compare it to today. We have telephones, TVs, radios, computers, mp3 players, good shoes that don't fall apart, we have refrigerators and freezers in almost every household. People have more than one or two sets of clothing Many if not most have washing machines and cars, etc. Starvation is so rare it makes the news, obesity is the biggest health problem for the poor (perhaps second after smoking)

How did this wealth spread? Was it through redistribution? Did we storm the mansions of the rich and cast down the walls of the nobility and shoot the idle elite in their county manors and take their stuff?

No, it was through INDUSTRY. We made MORE stuff. and BETTER stuff. and NEW stuff.

As I said, it is sad, they live in a world of miracles and they see it as a failure. Somehow all these riches are not enough because someone else has more.

Is this world perfect? No. Does it suck that others might have so much more than they cold ever spent. Perhaps. But I grew up poor, and now I am well into the top 20%, income wise. Where else in the world has that kind of mobility from economic classes?

The answer isn't having the government or the mob knock down the rich. It is to get the government out of the business of picking winners and losers. If they don't have the power to make and break, then they aren't worth buying.

[dorminWS]

I'm actually surprised to be as high as that calculator places me. Because even though I'm in a higher percentile than I expected my income to be, I certainly don't consider myself to be rich by any means. Haven't got a single hundred-dollar bill I could bring myself to burn for tinder. And I certainly can't spare any of my hard-earned income to go for higher taxes. With the possible exception of those in the TOP ONE-HALF OF ONE PERCENT, (income of 1 million dollars a year and up) I doubt anyone feels differently. Higher incomes usually mean bigger committments to meet because you incurred them to earn more income. It sure has for me. In other words, the dumb@sses in DC are going to have to quit wasteing money and forget about raising any MORE money through taxes.

[Skeptic]

A few other things I learned growing up poor

- Many times we didn't have a car, and one point lived up north , with no car. Getting groceries was no joy in the winter, so don't tell me about no dang food desert. We didn't eat junk food - we could not afford it. We bought the basic staples and COOKED our food. Granted we did get the welfare cheese and that tasted pretty good.

- Part of that time we lived in federal housing projects - where they concentrated all the poor people so they could all learn each other's bad habits, I guess. The people who got out of there the quickest were the immigrants. They understood the American Dream - they worked hard, scrimped and saved, and then they made it. Everyone in the neighborhood used to laugh at how they would live 2 families to a unit, but then they would move out 3 years later after they bought a business and a house.

[Skeptic]

I'm actually surprised to be as high as that calculator places me. Because even though I'm in a higher percentile than I expected my income to be, I certainly don't consider myself to be rich by any means. Haven't got a single hundred-dollar bill I could bring myself to burn for tinder. And I certainly can't spare any of my hard-earned income to go for higher taxes. With the possible exception of those in the TOP ONE-HALF OF ONE PERCENT, (income of 1 million dollars a year and up) I doubt anyone feels differently. Higher incomes usually mean bigger committments to meet because you incurred them to earn more income. It sure has for me. In other words, the dumb@sses in DC are going to have to quit wasteing money and forget about raising any MORE money through taxes.

Part of the problem is it only takes into account income. Since I grew up poor, I didnt inherit anything and had to borrow a lot for school, etc. Income really is only half the story when it comes to "the rich".

[dorminWS]

Spot on

I grew up poor, some due to bad luck my parents had, and a lot due to a series of bad choices they made after that.

I was active in protests and in liberal politics, because I was raised to be quite liberal and see things in terms of class struggle, especially by my honors teachers.

But that just simply ignores the facts. It took a while for me to "get it". We truly live in a world of miracles.

The Occupiers in Richmond say that our society has had hundreds of years to get our act together, so they need to "have a conversation" to "decide the new systems to replace this failed one".

It is sad, they see what we have gained in the past 200 years and deem it a failure. We have health measures from sanitation to thousands of wonder drugs that even most of the poor in our nation can afford. We have expanded our food production (not always for the best) and our ability to share, communicate, and to travel. Electricity. Simple things like running water , hot water on demand! I thank God for those simple things every morning.

Look at the wealth of the average American turn of the 20th century and compare it to today. We have telephones, TVs, radios, computers, mp3 players, good shoes that don't fall apart, we have refrigerators and freezers in almost every household. People have more than one or two sets of clothing Many if not most have washing machines and cars, etc. Starvation is so rare it makes the news, obesity is the biggest health problem for the poor (perhaps second after smoking)

How did this wealth spread? Was it through redistribution? Did we storm the mansions of the rich and cast down the walls of the nobility and shoot the idle elite in their county manors and take their stuff?

No, it was through INDUSTRY. We made MORE stuff. and BETTER stuff. and NEW stuff.

As I said, it is sad, they live in a world of miracles and they see it as a failure. Somehow all these riches are not enough because someone else has more.

Is this world perfect? No. Does it suck that others might have so much more than they cold ever spent. Perhaps. But I grew up poor, and now I am well into the top 20%, income wise. Where else in the world has that kind of mobility from economic classes?

The answer isn't having the government or the mob knock down the rich. It is to get the government out of the business of picking winners and losers. If they don't have the power to make and break, then they aren't worth buying.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

BRAVO! ABSOLUTELY TRUE AND VERY WELL SAID.

[Skeptic]

I look at them more as the crabs that pull the other crabs, that are trying to climb out of the basket, back into the basket. .

This is also exactly the peasant mentality. It's why the communists were able to take over in Russia so easily, because of this instilled tendency of people who think like peasants. They see the economy as a fixed size pie, surely anyone with more is stealing, in their viewpoint.

[mamabearCali]

It is quite interesting. Through very hard work my husband and I are according to this in the top 30% ish. However this does not examine how much the cost of living is in your area/family size/ a whole host of other factors. If we took what we made and went to Long Island, we would be hard up big time! If we took what we made and went to Texas we would be doing much better. Interesting case in point for what we paid for our house here in chesterfield VA 2 years ago my brother in law bought a house with 1500 more square feet and a much nicer house just outside of Houston (at about the same time). Now, I am thankful for what I have, and the climate outside of houston is more than I want to handle.

Perhaps the OWS crowd should take to heart a song I teach my children.

"I thank God for this day,
For the sun in the sky,
For my mom and my dad,
For my piece of apple pie!

For our home on the ground,
For His love that's all around,
That's why I say thanks every day!

Because a thankful heart is a happy heart!
I'm glad for what I have,
Thats an easy way to start!

For the love that He shares,
'Cause He listens to my prayers,
That's why I say thanks every day"

Nothing wrong with looking to improve your station in life, that is a good quality too, but we should not let covetousness consume us.

[Kreutz]

I scored 89%, I'm shocked since I make less than I used to, but the 89% is cool because I also grew up poor (until my father started to clean up his act when I was 8 he frequently drank the grocery money) and had to join the Army to get out as I couldn't afford college or a car to get to a job (Long Island has abysmal public transportation), so off I went.

Thing is I have to chuckle when I see on here people keep saying "government doesn't create wealth"...well, it did in my case. I would have never been able to afford college myself (I have a serious aversion to debt).

I actually got so much financial aid combined with my GI bill I made a few grand going to college; it paid for a three week European vacation actually. This was legal as GI bill $ didnt count as income and since I studied my ass off during the school year I had no time to work so my income was 0 in school...as a veteran my parents income didnt count.

In school frequently I was the only white guy in the library, the Asian engineering students practically lived there. Alot of the OWS people do have useless majors and I have no sympathy for them. My major was challenging but rewarding in a rapidly growing and increasingly complex field (health information).

Back to .gov creating wealth, they gave me the GI bill and the financial aid (grants, wouldnt take loans), now I make a great living and the gov got its money back several times over already and since I make good $ I can afford to buy things, which is good for us all. Had I been denied any financial assistance I would be making crappy dough and probably on food stamps or something since i have alot of kids.

Recently I bought a new stove/oven/range/whatever for the kitchen, it was made in America and two guys came to install it and haul the old one away for recycling; thats one good and two services generating wealth from my purchase...all domestic.

Yeah, much government spending is a waste I admit, but when the taxpayer invests in education it did pay off for society in my case. I would favor subsidizing science, math, medical, or engineering majors because our country really needs them, and since theyre difficult the slackers would never get a dime and its a real investment in Americans.

I dont think someone studying pre-19th century Javanese merkin fashion should get a FAFSA grant....and I'm sure thats a major somewhere.

[dorminWS]

Trouble is, the minute the gov't subsidizes something, it draws all the drones and free riders and builds in disincentives to the type of productivity and industry that you applied to make your life productive. You'd probably have figured out some way to do it anyway. I'm not saying there shouldn't be aid for education in the "hard sciences" and other fields where graduates are actually in demand; just that we oughtn't let the US Department of Education be in charge of it because they'll screw it up and minimize the benefit from it just as sure as God made little green apples.

And you shouldn't give the government credit for all you've accomplished. They just helped you get educated. It was then up to you not to sit on your kiester and collect welfare for the next 50 years. You "done good", and it is you who deserves the credit for it; not the government.

[Taggure]

Trouble is, the minute the gov't subsidizes something, it draws all the drones and free riders and builds in disincentives to the type of productivity and industry that you applied to make your life productive. You'd probably have figured out some way to do it anyway. I'm not saying there shouldn't be aid for education in the "hard sciences" and other fields where graduates are actually in demand; just that we oughtn't let the US Department of Education be in charge of it because they'll screw it up and minimize the benefit from it just as sure as God made little green apples.

And you shouldn't give the government credit for all you've accomplished. They just helped you get educated. It was then up to you not to sit on your kiester and collect welfare for the next 50 years. You "done good", and it is you who deserves the credit for it; not the government.

I agree

I want to commend you on your drive and conviction to better yourself, and you should stand proud in knowing that your success was because of your hard work. It is a funny thing that little piece of us that is buried deep within that makes us strive to succeed it brings out the best in those that can find it. The path you took by using the TA that you got from your service was a benefit awarded to you for your service and therefore a tool for you to use just as the grants were a tool to achieve Your Goals in life.

[Kreutz]

Trouble is, the minute the gov't subsidizes something, it draws all the drones and free riders and builds in disincentives to the type of productivity and industry that you applied to make your life productive. You'd probably have figured out some way to do it anyway. I'm not saying there shouldn't be aid for education in the "hard sciences" and other fields where graduates are actually in demand; just that we oughtn't let the US Department of Education be in charge of it because they'll screw it up and minimize the benefit from it just as sure as God made little green apples.

And you shouldn't give the government credit for all you've accomplished. They just helped you get educated. It was then up to you not to sit on your kiester and collect welfare for the next 50 years. You "done good", and it is you who deserves the credit for it; not the government.

I hear ya, but the Gi bill is basically welfare, yes I earned it, but I paid in $1,200 and got over $24,000....quite a return! Someone else paid for it.

The birth of my first kid is what got my arse moving incidentally, it was sink or swim and I chose to grab a speedboat. But I am aware all that gubbermint dough opened the doors in the first place and would like to see other folks get that chance.

As for the DOE I would probably be ok with eliminating it based on past performance (i.e. none that have been measurable), but I would trust say, the National Academy of Sciences to administer grant programs for studies in useful fields. I'm cool with my tax $ giving people a helping hand to get started in a useful field and not be loaded with debt when they graduate because down the road it should enrich us all.

[grumpyMSG]

I scored 89%, I'm shocked since I make less than I used to, but the 89% is cool because I also grew up poor (until my father started to clean up his act when I was 8 he frequently drank the grocery money) and had to join the Army to get out as I couldn't afford college or a car to get to a job (Long Island has abysmal public transportation), so off I went.

Thing is I have to chuckle when I see on here people keep saying "government doesn't create wealth"...well, it did in my case. I would have never been able to afford college myself (I have a serious aversion to debt).

That is where you are different from the clowns in Occupy Wallstreet, you traded your services for a paycheck and benefits. Some of them wracked up student loan debt (some of which I am sure payed for partying) and now want those of us who pay taxes to either pay their loans or roll it into the ever growing national debt. Where we have lost it is the everybody can go to college mentality. There are only so many executive positions in corporations that need the services of young college grads and there are even fewer positions for people with Literature, Human Studies and various other worthless degrees. Where the money can be made these days is in manual labor/production jobs, because so many people just aren't willing to get dirty.

[Skeptic]

The decision to cut the percentage that someone has to pay on their loan and cut the payments to 20 years max is also going to make the problem worse on education costs. Less incentive to learn something useful. That is something I am trying to teach my boys right now. One of them is definitely college bound and I could tell that when he was 5. The other not sure yet.

But learn something useful. And consider a community college for your first year's courses. Of course he will probably have those first year courses taken care of via AP type courses.

[Kreutz]

That is where you are different from the clowns in Occupy Wallstreet, you traded your services for a paycheck and benefits. Some of them wracked up student loan debt (some of which I am sure payed for partying) and now want those of us who pay taxes to either pay their loans or roll it into the ever growing national debt.

My cousin studied auto engineering as an undergraduate, he basically lived and breathed engineering for four years.

Thats why I'm confident subsidizing the hard sciences and medicine will pay off; the students in these programs can't goof off. Not enough hours in the day. If they flunk they get the bill, no biggie. I'm not looking at this as welfare, but an investment; we really do need more scientists, engineers, etc.

Where we have lost it is the everybody can go to college mentality. There are only so many executive positions in corporations that need the services of young college grads and there are even fewer positions for people with Literature, Human Studies and various other worthless degrees. Where the money can be made these days is in manual labor/production jobs, because so many people just aren't willing to get dirty.

Well, I'm not an exec of anything save my own 1.5 person company, but truth be told when computers replace me in 8-10 years I look FORWARD to learning a trade and working with my hands. Desk jobs are cushy but my back and neck give me chronic pain as I work seven days a week to keep the clients happy. They pay good and on time, so, I toil for 'em.

Perhaps I may have mistakenly given the impression I support the OWS types...and to the extent I support their core message (corporations and big money have too much influence on the legislative process), I do.

However....I fckin hate hipster twits. I may be OK with the message to a point but I loathe the messenger. The Daily Show did a funny interview with some of them, apparently before it got taken down Zucotti Park had split into a rich side (iPad wielding hipsters from Brooklyn) on the upper hill and the poorer side (drum circles and hippies)on the bottom.

[gatlingun6]

I'm at the bottom 17%. That said, I own my car out right. I own my shelter outright. I have 3 monthly bills: phone, lot rent, and car insurance.

Some would look at my lifestyle and say that I am poverty stricken. Myself, I say that I am blessed. All of my basic needs are met, and I include gun and ammo in the list of basic needs.

I can even afford some luxuries. My car is a luxury. My cigarettes are a luxury. A couple times a month, I enjoy a good cigar. The other day, I enjoyed a couple of martinis. Phones are a luxury. This computer and the internet are a luxury.

I used to make a lot more money. I made a series of poor decisions, and lost everything. That is not the fault of Wall Street. As much as I loathe Obama, I cannot blame him, either. I am the only one to blame. Further, it is my fault that I dropped out of high school and failed to go to college.

I look at my more successful sister. She also keeps her bills to a minimum. She has actually managed to save money. She goes to school (and she's 30). She even takes silly classes. She goes socializing, much more than I do.

Here's my point: Your lot in life is a direct result of your decisions. I, and my sisters, grew up dirt poor. I remember living in a house with no insulation and holes in the exterior walls, when I was 3. I made some good decisions that took me far from that, and I made some bad ones that brought me closer to that point.

This is the land of opportunity. You may not become a millionaire, but if you learn to live within your means, and be content with what you have, you can certainly be comfortable and even enjoy some luxuries.

Spot on

I grew up poor, some due to bad luck my parents had, and a lot due to a series of bad choices they made after that.

I was active in protests and in liberal politics, because I was raised to be quite liberal and see things in terms of class struggle, especially by my honors teachers.

But that just simply ignores the facts. It took a while for me to "get it". We truly live in a world of miracles.

The Occupiers in Richmond say that our society has had hundreds of years to get our act together, so they need to "have a conversation" to "decide the new systems to replace this failed one".

It is sad, they see what we have gained in the past 200 years and deem it a failure. We have health measures from sanitation to thousands of wonder drugs that even most of the poor in our nation can afford. We have expanded our food production (not always for the best) and our ability to share, communicate, and to travel. Electricity. Simple things like running water , hot water on demand! I thank God for those simple things every morning.

Look at the wealth of the average American turn of the 20th century and compare it to today. We have telephones, TVs, radios, computers, mp3 players, good shoes that don't fall apart, we have refrigerators and freezers in almost every household. People have more than one or two sets of clothing Many if not most have washing machines and cars, etc. Starvation is so rare it makes the news, obesity is the biggest health problem for the poor (perhaps second after smoking)

How did this wealth spread? Was it through redistribution? Did we storm the mansions of the rich and cast down the walls of the nobility and shoot the idle elite in their county manors and take their stuff?

No, it was through INDUSTRY. We made MORE stuff. and BETTER stuff. and NEW stuff.


As I said, it is sad, they live in a world of miracles and they see it as a failure. Somehow all these riches are not enough because someone else has more.

Is this world perfect? No. Does it suck that others might have so much more than they cold ever spent. Perhaps. But I grew up poor, and now I am well into the top 20%, income wise. Where else in the world has that kind of mobility from economic classes?

The answer isn't having the government or the mob knock down the rich. It is to get the government out of the business of picking winners and losers. If they don't have the power to make and break, then they aren't worth buying.

*************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Skeptic: A pretty good post but in a sense you wrote about 2 different Americas, one past, and the direction we have been moving towards over the last 30 or so years. For the over whelming majority our lives move in ways that are much more complicated than the results of our decisions. There are limitless circumstances and decisions beyond our control that can and do affect our lives in unimaginable ways, both good and bad.

This life as a straight line presumes that the outcome in life is a series of conscious, debatable choices, and that those who make the correct ones, or fewer bad ones succeed whereas others don't. It's the Frost poem, "The Road not Taken" applied to every day life. In actuality we make a plethora of decisions every day that are routine, and mundane without so much as a thought of any possible consequences.

Who thinks that simply going to work as you're supposed to can cost you your life, or delaying your departure to work can save your life; or making a flight can cost you your life, or missing one can save it.The sudden illness of a spouse, a child, a parent, a sibling, or even a friend can alter your life.

Most of us are at will employees, so any one of us can find ourselves out of work based on someone else's decisions. The plant could close and move overseas. Your company could reorganize or downsize you right out of a job. A chance encounter can change your life. In reading numerous biographies, I am often struck by how often the chance encounter had a positive or negative effect on people. Would there have been an Apple Corporation had Steve Jobs not met Steve Wozniak? Who knows?
very
On the personal level, I have a friend whose main desire in the Army was to become a helicopter pilot. He was enlisted. In going through the process he said he had to take an orientation flight. On that day a commissioned officer decided to do the flight instead of the scheduled warrant officer. Were it not for that change he said he would never have considered trying to become a commissioned officer who was also a pilot. That chance encounter and one other changed his life in ways that he did not contemplate.
er
There's nothing unique or unusual about this story. It's our story and the story of every person who has enjoyed a modicum of success, was wildly successful, or simply succeeded at doing whatever we wanted to do in life. If asked all of us can cite someone who positively affected our lives. It may have been a teacher, a parent, a grandparent, a friend, a boss, a co-worker, even a stranger. Whoever it was, we have all told that story over and over, and we have never forgotten the name or the influence of that person, or persons.

Then there is that other America. The one where we tell every kid, If you work hard enough and apply yourself, you can be whatever you want. How many kids do just that yet never succeed. Conversely, how many kids do the opposite just go through life without applying themselves, doing drugs, alcohol, or any number of things that can't, or should not work. Yet later on they succeed because of any number of things. Gerald Ford becomes President of the United States, not because of what he did, but because of what President Nixon did, or didn't do. This list too is endless. When we repeat this line somewhere deep down we know it's not true. Statistics confirm that it's not true.

The sad fact in the U.S. is it's much more likely that one will go down the ladder, or simply stay in the class to which they were born. It's also true that upward mobility is more likely in Western European and Scandinavian countries than it is in the U.S. Unless trends are reversed, this current generation will be the first who on average achieve less than their parents.

Gat6

[SHMIV]

Then there is that other America. The one where we tell every kid, If you work hard enough and apply yourself, you can be whatever you want.

I believe that to be a large portion of the problem. Sure, it's possible that I could work really hard, and apply myself, and be the CEO of the most profitable company in the world. It's also possible that I could get invited on the next shuttle flight to the moon when I go to church tomorrow. But, while these things are possible, are they probable? Nope. They are not. But, that distinction was never made.

Most people, that I have met, in my age group (and I'm 32), who are also college educated (and, I am not) do not seem to realize the difference between possibility and probability.