223 or 5.56 ??

[sjm]

Being a handgun person and giving up on finding the elusive P7 M13 or 4" Python at a reasonable price, I am considering an AR type rifle. Than being said now comes the question of 223 or 5.56. I have read many articles and reviews and one says they are interchangeable, one says they are not. I've seen ammo boxes that say both on the same box. What is the real deal? Also I was considering a 7.62 and what I read about them is that the recoil is much greater. Now It"s been a long time but I don't remember the recoil being bad at all on the M16 I carried in the Army. Any help would be appreciated. Also any suggestions on make/model. I don't want to spend a fortune, just something to take to the range thats fun to shoot. Thanks in advance.

[SpanishInquisition]

Get it chambered for 5.56. You csn fire .223 with no long term ill effects, but the opposite is not true due to higher pressores in 5.56.

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[GeneFrenkle]

Boy, there's a lot of milage for this post lately: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

This talk tangibly about .223 vs 5.56.

[NovaHunter]

A 5.56mm chamber can shoot both, but a .223 chamber is recommend to only shoot .223.

The difference is in the throat of the chambering. The 5.56mm is a slightly "looser" chambering because it has a longer throat. This means on paper a 5.56mm chambering on paper is inherently less accurate than a .223 chamber. I say on paper because I have seen 5.56mm rifles shoot darn near .5 moa at 100 yards, and there are .223 rifles out there that can barely shoot MOA at 100 yards.

If you are going for a 16in carbine AR-15, then go with the 5.56mm as it gives you the most flexibility in ammo.

If you are looking at a 18in, 20in, or 24in gun that is a little longer range shooting then you might want to consider a tighter chamber. I went with the .223 wylde chambering on my 20in DMR and have been very happy with it to date. The .223 wylde gives me near accuracy potential of the .223 Remington, but also allows me to shoot 5.56mm through it.

[sjm]

Thanks for the info. that article was very informative. I think I'll just go with a 5.56. I'm definitely going to check out Sterling Arsenal.

Thanks again

[grumpyMSG]

Now you have to start asking the 1:12, 1:9 and 1:7 twist question. If you are going to stick with a 55 gain or smaller bullet 1:12 is probably what you want. If you are going to shoot the 62-69 grain bullets (green tip military rounds are 62), you need at least 1:9 and if you are going to be shooting the 70-80 grain bullets you should probably run the 1:7.

[GeneFrenkle]

Bah, just get a 182 series mini-14 and use whatever ammo you can find. It's not like matching the bullet mass to the twistrate will improve the accuracy significantly. LOL

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[sjm]

thanks grumpy but i think you are just trying to confuse the novice (more then i already am). in this day and age i think the ammo i will be shooting will be whatever i can find.

thanks again

[GeneFrenkle]

Actually, grumpy's giving really good advise. You do need to pay attention to the twist rate and bullet mass which can cause accurracy issues. One of the accuracy criticisms from older mini owners is, in part, from using 55 grain bullets when they should have been using 62 grain bullets. His post is really a tl;dr; or cliffs notes. You can shoot whatever weight you'd like, the groupings will widen and there might be some stabilization issues, however.

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[sjm]

ok lets say i have 1:7 twist then i happen to find ammo on the shelf that is 62 grain am i (someone who hasn't fired an rifle since my m16 in vietnam) going to notice anything adverse happening? this is just going to be something to take to the range with my son and have fun with.

thanks

[GeneFrenkle]

Adverse? prolly not, unless you consider not getting the best accuracy out of your gun a problem, or you agonize over your group size.

A mini-14 has a twistrate of 1:9 so, theoretically, 62+ grain bullets should be near optimal for it. I'll shoot 55 grain because it's "good enough" for me, I can (could) find 55 grain easily and cheaply, groundhogs don't notice the difference, and I'll do the happy dance when I'm hitting the target consistently.

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[MarcSpaz]

As many have already said, a rifle that can fire a 5.56x45mm NATO round can shoot a Remington .223 round, but not the other way around. The .223 Rem rated barrels will be damaged by the exploding force of the 5.56x45 NATO. This can become extremely dangerous and very quickly.

Speaking of the rifle specifically, a .223 Wylde chambered rifle is a proprietary type. It is almost identical to the 5.56 NATO with regard to being able to withstand the almost 7,000 in. lbs. of increased pressure over the .223 Rem. However, the design does not meet some NATO requirements with regard to the leade, rifling, other dimensions, etc., so they can't call it a 5.56 NATO rifle.

Also, you must use the Wylde specific ammo to get the increased accuracy that the weapon can provide.

The Wylde gives you the greatest variety of ammo you can use, but it fails tests for NATO proofing certification... so I stay away from them.

[sjm]

well i'm definitely going with a 5.56, now the only thing to consider is which one. Quantico Tactical has good deals on S&W, i just need to check out a few different. thanks for all your help.

[NovaHunter]

We use 1:8 twist SS barrels on all of our current AR-15 builds because it is a very versatile twist rate for most ammo you'll find. You can shoot 55gr 5.56 with good accuracy, and shoot the heavier ammo up to 77gr with great accuracy. It's also the fastest twist rate we recommend if you want to shoot 22LR through your AR-15.

[Snakester]

It truly is a lot to consider .....Go get you a 10/22 and a dozen 25 rd. mags. and have a great time at the Range !

[gunderwood]

If you're building a target gun or otherwise require precision, go .223 with the proper throat for your application. If you're building a tactical carbine/rifle where durability/harsh conditions trump accuracy, go 5.56. A hybrid 5.56/.223 chamber like the Wylde may work for some applications where you want a balance. There are technical differences, but the 5.56 chambering is typically "looser" to accommodate buildup in the throat of copper/powder residue, extreme temperatures, etc.