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Scope question.

PostPosted: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:25:56
by dorminWS
I fired a Bushmaster BA-50 a while back at a dealer's shop. He had a 4"x 4" steel target 250 yards up a fairly steep hollow. I asked him what the "dope" was on the scope so I'd know where to hold on the target. His answer was "Just put the chevron on the middle of the target, the scope does the rest." Sure enough, I did just that and hit dead center. It was almost like one of those video games. I asked him when I bought a BA-50 from him later that day what the make of the scope was, and he never got around to telling me. He did tell me the scope had an integrated laser range finder and BDC (bullet drop compensation) such that you program the scope and it corrects to always put the chevron on the target. Then he possum-grinned me and told me what it cost. But I didn't respond by offering to buy one. I mounted a good Leupold on my BA-50 as a short-hand solution and seem to be making do well enough. I haven't found a place where I can really shoot far enough to know yet.

Then yesterday I bought a couple of Saiga-12s from him, and asked him again who made the scope. It sounded like he said "AYCOCK"(So many rounds, too little hearing protection). Well, needless to say, I can't find anything about an AYCOCK scope on the web. Obviously the guy at the shop wants me to buy a scope from him.

Anybody got any idea who might have made the scope? It was short and fat - almost like a holographic signt, but it was a scope. I'm not even plumb sure I want one that makes it that simple, but it's eatin' me up not knowing who made it.

Re: Scope question.

PostPosted: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:25:42
by gunderwood
Did the scope look like it had such features? There is the Barrett BORS system, but that is just a computer attached to your knobs and still requires you to actuate them. The only system even remotely like that (that I know of) and claims to be the first is the Hensoldt SAM and it runs about $12k. They also have the SSG-P which is a fancy mechanical milling scope, but it runs $5k and doesn't do exactly what you said.

I know DARPA has played with such ideas, but active lasers are a risk. Batteries die and lasers are detectable...not that they aren't used, but they are used in addition to basic skills when the situation allows it. I think LM just won a phase 2 DARPA award to repackage a prototype which demonstrated the ability to correct for wind using a laser.

Never heard of anything like you describe being sold on the civilian market (doesn't mean it hasn't though). Are you sure he wasn't just pulling your leg and the rifle was zeroed for that target? That would be how I'd expect a demo rifle to be setup.

Re: Scope question.

PostPosted: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:34:39
by gunderwood
Here is a good description and picture of the SSG-P: http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/ ... g-p-61753/

Basically it has that second vertical "reticle" which tells you how many mils you have come up from the zero. E.g. let's say you zero your rifle at 100 meters and need to come up 5.8 mils to hit your target which is obviously beyond 100 meters. The second reticle allows you to see through the scope how far you have come up rather than reading it off of the knobs. It's fast because you don't have to count clicks or need external light to read where you are (I think it is lite like the rest of the reticle). Getting lost on your scope settings is a newbie error, but one that even seasoned operators can make under extreme stress, this helps solve that if you have the money.

Re: Scope question.

PostPosted: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:46:53
by gunderwood
Here is the Hensoldt SAM system: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/200 ... ed-in-usa/

It has an integrated ballistics calc, but it appears you must adjust the reticle yourself. There was a "cheap" hunting scope from Zeiss which had some sort of range finder built into it, but it did not correct for anything...it just gives range.

http://www.zeiss.com/c1256bcf0020be5f/C ... 4a00530821

Re: Scope question.

PostPosted: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:55:57
by dorminWS

Re: Scope question.

PostPosted: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:38:36
by gunderwood
dorminWS wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfRWsd2czdU&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Don't buy that POS. It's nothing more than a crappy camera claiming to be a scope. It also doesn't have a laser range finder either. It literally is no better than a camera you would find at Best Buy with a reticle overlay. The "ballsitic calc" is nothing more than a simple drop/windage table which your PC generated for a static condition. Just like a cheap camera, electronic zoom isn't real...it's just blowing up pixels and cropping the image.

Re: Scope question.

PostPosted: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 18:17:43
by CCFan
Wasn't a Trijicon/ACOG, was it?

One similar to this maybe?

Re: Scope question.

PostPosted: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 18:21:36
by gunderwood
CCFan wrote:Wasn't a Trijicon/ACOG, was it?

One similar to this maybe?

Those do have chevrons and you can get a ballistic compensated reticle, but they are all passive and certainly don't have a laser range finder or are "programmable." I.e. the reticle has several graduations for different hold overs, but the reticle doesn't auto-adjust to the targets range or even move to compensate for range once zeroed.

Re: Scope question.

PostPosted: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 22:38:15
by totes6
Was it this burris laser scope?

http://www.burrisoptics.com/laserscope.html

Re: Scope question.

PostPosted: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 04:38:02
by grumpyMSG
gunderwood wrote:
dorminWS wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfRWsd2czdU&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Don't buy that POS. It's nothing more than a crappy camera claiming to be a scope. It also doesn't have a laser range finder either. It literally is no better than a camera you would find at Best Buy with a reticle overlay. The "ballsitic calc" is nothing more than a simple drop/windage table which your PC generated for a static condition. Just like a cheap camera, electronic zoom isn't real...it's just blowing up pixels and cropping the image.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge on that one. It is made by Elcan, the same people who make the M145 Machine Gun Optic, which is very heavy for a 4X scope has external adjustments and is incredibly tough though. It is probably expensive as all get out too.

I am guessing that he probably saw one of the 6 X ACOGs, http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=TA648-50, that would sound like "Aycock", and it would definitely look short and fat compared to a conventional optic and probably had a Chevron in the reticle too. At 250 yards somewhere on the chevron would probably be the aiming point. wind wouldn't be an issue with a .50 BMG at that range either...

Re: Scope question.

PostPosted: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:25:17
by SgtBill
I can't see someone at any range that sell's weapons handing an unsighted weapon at any place that was not sighted for the given distance that it would be shot at. A miss could very well mean a missed sale.
Bill

Re: Scope question.

PostPosted: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 09:16:37
by gunderwood
grumpyMSG wrote:
gunderwood wrote:
dorminWS wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfRWsd2czdU&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Don't buy that POS. It's nothing more than a crappy camera claiming to be a scope. It also doesn't have a laser range finder either. It literally is no better than a camera you would find at Best Buy with a reticle overlay. The "ballsitic calc" is nothing more than a simple drop/windage table which your PC generated for a static condition. Just like a cheap camera, electronic zoom isn't real...it's just blowing up pixels and cropping the image.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge on that one. It is made by Elcan, the same people who make the M145 Machine Gun Optic, which is very heavy for a 4X scope has external adjustments and is incredibly tough though. It is probably expensive as all get out too.

It can be had for as little as $800. It's a glorified camcorder. Real digital scopes like that cost 10x. I'm not saying that all Elcan products are junk, but those that aren't cost thousands and aren't digital like that. That scope works just like your camcorder. A CCD (most like tech) device captured the image and then it is displayed on an LCD screen as your "sight" picture. I'm all for technology and certainly such scopes will become more common, but even for $800 you can do much better with a real mechanical scope.

It's like cheap NV/IR/UV gigs. Technically you can take any digital camera and remove the UV/IR filters and they will pick up those spectrum bands. There are companies marketing such devices as NV and while technically they work, they often aren't worth the money...a $200 camera from Best Buy and 5mins with it does just as well.

Edit: How's this for an analogy. The Digital Hunter is a point and shoot, while a real digital rifle scope is a high end DSLR.

Re: Scope question.

PostPosted: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 09:36:35
by gunderwood
Forgot to mention, did you watch the video and see just how bad (noisy, pixelated, etc.) the images were. Mike notes that the picture is only slightly better at lower magnifications.

Re: Scope question.

PostPosted: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 10:52:32
by dorminWS
I have my answer. I believe what I saw was an ACOG. It certainly did occur to me that the gun must be sighted in for the range it's owner had behind his shop. Thanks to all for the information.

Re: Scope question.

PostPosted: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:19:17
by gunderwood
dorminWS wrote:I have my answer. I believe what I saw was an ACOG. It certainly did occur to me that the gun must be sighted in for the range it's owner had behind his shop. Thanks to all for the information.

ACOGs are decent scopes. Average glass, really tough, and I like the concept a lot. I like them on battle rifles much more than I do small carbines or big bolt actions. Their primary features are tritium reticle with daylight fiberoptic, range compensated reticles and BAC on some models.