Page 1 of 1

How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 11:02:19
by zombiekiller57
I happened to think about this today when I was reviewing a post for some SS190 rounds for a FN 5.7. For those not familiar these rounds are a FMJ steel core similar to a XM855 .223 round. In searching the VA code to see if AP ammo was legal in VA the only reference I found was in the code listed above. The code goes on to say
cartridges of which the bullet itself is wholly comprised of a metal or metal alloy other than lead
. How does this relate to lead free bullets? This to me would mean that a SS195LF would be illegal in VA if used in the commission of a crime. Let's take a self defense situation or for that matter a business owner that has you arrested with criminal trespass for carrying a weapon in his store. If the DA proceeds with prosecution then I am assuming he could stack the charges with a violation of 18.2-308.3 as well. Not that that would be your biggest problem or concern but it seems ridiculous in this day when they are pushing the use of lead free bullets in indoor ranges due to the potential health risks.

Re: How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 11:34:04
by skeeterss0
I believe this link is accurate and explains it best:

http://gunwalker.com/5.7x28mm/armorpiercing.html

It explains why the SS190 is not considered armor piercing.


this only pertains to federal law: VA law says anything other than lead core is illeagle so it may be illeagle in VA.


I keep rereading the VA law to get clarification and realized it is talking about teflon coating or simmillar coatings on the bullet.

Re: How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 11:34:12
by OakRidgeStars
I'm not understanding your question. Since both steel and lead are considered to be "metals" it wouldn't make any difference at all.

Unless I'm confused, which is always a possibility.

Re: How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:02:18
by Chasbo00

Re: How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:19:25
by jdonovan
Its still on the books... and yes ammo with out lead in the projectile is illegal in VA when committing a crime.

Re: How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:27:39
by skeeterss0
As I see it they are only unlawful if it is plastic/teflon coated. If they are not plastic/teflon coated this law does not apply.

The law reads as follows:

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.3

18.2-308.3. Use or attempted use of restricted ammunition in commission or attempted commission of crimes prohibited; penalty.

A. When used in this section:

"Restricted firearm ammunition" applies to bullets, projectiles or other types of ammunition that are: (i) coated with or contain, in whole or in part, polytetrafluorethylene or a similar product, (ii) commonly known as "KTW" bullets or "French Arcanes," or (iii) any cartridges containing bullets coated with a plastic substance with other than lead or lead alloy cores, jacketed bullets with other than lead or lead alloy cores, or cartridges of which the bullet itself is wholly comprised of a metal or metal alloy other than lead. This definition shall not be construed to include shotgun shells or solid plastic bullets.

B. It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly use or attempt to use restricted firearm ammunition while committing or attempting to commit a crime. Violation of this section shall constitute a separate and distinct felony and any person found guilty thereof shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony.

Re: How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:31:01
by zombiekiller57
Chasbo00 wrote:A blast from the past...

post80855.html?hilit=restricted%20ammunition#p80855


Thanks for the link. I did a search for Ammunition but only under the Law forum I didn't think about the Reloading forum

Re: How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:34:24
by zombiekiller57
skeeterss0 wrote:As I see it they are only unlawful if it is plastic/teflon coated. If they are not plastic/teflon coated this law does not apply.

The law reads as follows:

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.3

18.2-308.3. Use or attempted use of restricted ammunition in commission or attempted commission of crimes prohibited; penalty.

A. When used in this section:

"Restricted firearm ammunition" applies to bullets, projectiles or other types of ammunition that are: (i) coated with or contain, in whole or in part, polytetrafluorethylene or a similar product, (ii) commonly known as "KTW" bullets or "French Arcanes," or (iii) any cartridges containing bullets coated with a plastic substance with other than lead or lead alloy cores, jacketed bullets with other than lead or lead alloy cores, or cartridges of which the bullet itself is wholly comprised of a metal or metal alloy other than lead. This definition shall not be construed to include shotgun shells or solid plastic bullets.

B. It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly use or attempt to use restricted firearm ammunition while committing or attempting to commit a crime. Violation of this section shall constitute a separate and distinct felony and any person found guilty thereof shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony.


section iii contains an (or ) clause that I have bolded. That is where I see a separation between plastic substance and lead free

Re: How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:35:22
by Chasbo00
skeeterss0 wrote:As I see it they are only unlawful if it is plastic/teflon coated. If they are not plastic/teflon coated this law does not apply.


Note what is highlighted in red below.

skeeterss0 wrote:The law reads as follows:

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.3

18.2-308.3. Use or attempted use of restricted ammunition in commission or attempted commission of crimes prohibited; penalty.

A. When used in this section:

"Restricted firearm ammunition" applies to bullets, projectiles or other types of ammunition that are: (i) coated with or contain, in whole or in part, polytetrafluorethylene or a similar product, (ii) commonly known as "KTW" bullets or "French Arcanes," or (iii) any cartridges containing bullets coated with a plastic substance with other than lead or lead alloy cores, jacketed bullets with other than lead or lead alloy cores, or cartridges of which the bullet itself is wholly comprised of a metal or metal alloy other than lead. This definition shall not be construed to include shotgun shells or solid plastic bullets.

B. It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly use or attempt to use restricted firearm ammunition while committing or attempting to commit a crime. Violation of this section shall constitute a separate and distinct felony and any person found guilty thereof shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony.

Re: How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:37:44
by zombiekiller57
skeeterss0 wrote:I believe this link is accurate and explains it best:

http://gunwalker.com/5.7x28mm/armorpiercing.html

It explains why the SS190 is not considered armor piercing.


this only pertains to federal law: VA law says anything other than lead core is illeagle so it may be illeagle in VA.


I keep rereading the VA law to get clarification and realized it is talking about teflon coating or simmillar coatings on the bullet.


I agree it's not AP but I was taking the info from Wiki-pedia which still describes the SS190 as AP and we know everything in Wiki-pedia is the Gods honest truth. :)

Re: How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:39:33
by zombiekiller57
jdonovan wrote:Its still on the books... and yes ammo with out lead in the projectile is illegal in VA when committing a crime.


It sounds like this law needs to be revised while the Republicans have control.

Re: How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:03:46
by skeeterss0
I see where i was not reading it correctly....why can't they write laws in plain english? sorry for anything misleading i wrote.

Re: How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:12:09
by jdonovan
because lawyers write the code for lawyers to use.

Re: How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 20:02:20
by Palladin
So is it still a crime to commit a crime? :roll:
I want to commit my crimes leagally. :hysterical:

Re: How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 20:22:59
by zombiekiller57
Palladin wrote:I want to commit my crimes leagally. :hysterical:


You'll have to become a politician in order to do that.

Re: How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 16:49:11
by RileyC
I've heard the "French Arcanes" were an experimental round and haven't been made for 50 years. Does anyone know of any documentation about the "French Arcanes"? It's for my curiosity, and give me proof to how crazy these law writers are.

I've seen some mention in an old ammo article, but no real information about the round.

Re: How does Lead Free Ammunition apply to VA Code 18.2-308.3

PostPosted: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:32:33
by Ironbear
RileyC wrote:I've heard the "French Arcanes" were an experimental round and haven't been made for 50 years. Does anyone know of any documentation about the "French Arcanes"? It's for my curiosity, and give me proof to how crazy these law writers are.

I've seen some mention in an old ammo article, but no real information about the round.

You seem to have resurrected an 8 year old thread! :clap:

I recall reading some about the Arcane ammo, back in my youth, in the 80's. Probably in Solider of Fortune magazine or something similar. You might have better look searching for THV ammo. As I recall, Arcane was a brand name producing a THV style ammunition. The THV bullets were solid metal, with either a point or post on the front, with a bit of a reverse curve on the front of the bullet. The idea was the shock would act a bit like a snowplow... and they were very light and fast. Supposedly they were pretty effective against light body armor of the day.

It was all part of the effort, when high-capacity 9mm pistols were burgeoning, to improve the performance of the bullets. Since in many of the European countries, the police weren't allowed to use hollow-points; there was a number of designs that used light, high-velocity, solid bullets. THV and BAT ammo were two that I recall. As I recall, the wound channel for the high velocity rounds was spectacular, but penetration was limited. They also got caught (along with teflon coated bullets) in the frenzy of banning ammo that people thought would penetrate body armor.

As I remember, the light-fast 9mm craze died out, to be replaced by the 147gr 9mm craze. The bullets were slow, and the hollow-points of the day didn't really open up; and they got a bad reputation. The 147gr idea kind of went away until the designs got better and we started seeing a lot more suppressors.... since they were subsonic.

As a general observation, every few years, for as long as I remember, someone markets light-fast ammo as the greatest thing since sliced bread... and it remains a niche market since it seems the tried and true weight/velocity offers a better balance for most purposes.