JAPAN!

Discuss survival and preparedness strategies. What will you do when the zombies come to get us?

JAPAN!

Postby Reverenddel » Sat, 12 Mar 2011 23:26:38

To every one on the forum, here's your prime directive, LEARN FROM THE MISTAKES OF OTHERS!

Find out what's going on in Japan, what they're doing RIGHT, and what they're doing WRONG!

All this talk of "World Wars", "Shadow Guv'mint", and "Zombies", has gotten us preparing for something that MIGHT happen!

Natural Disasters WILL happen! Learn from it, and see what we can gather as examples.

For one? I ain't living NO WHERE near Lake Anna after this happy horsesh't! :hysterical:


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Re: JAPAN!

Postby WRW » Sat, 12 Mar 2011 23:51:08

You do know that North Anna power station was constructed on a fault line, don't you?


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Re: JAPAN!

Postby Reverenddel » Sun, 13 Mar 2011 02:16:40

YES! YES I DO! I camp up there a weekend about every month, or so...

Warm Water Side, Never feel comfortable thinking about a quake, and the plant.


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Re: JAPAN!

Postby zephyp » Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:03:14

I think it might be relatively simple to see how well prepared you are for natural or other disaster...simply shut off your electricity and water on Friday afternoon. Leave it that way until Sunday night. During the weekend make a list. To make it a little more realistic no using any vehicles either. If you dont have something you should improvise and make notes.

The power outage this past winter was a good tool for us. Although the power was only off for about 24 hors it was a good learning experience.
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Re: JAPAN!

Postby gunderwood » Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:41:58

Those Jap reactors are old designs which require water circulation even after shutdown for several days. IIRC, Lake Anna is of that era, but I don't recall what design it is off the top of my head. The problem is that the safety mechanism used all require power ( :doh: ). The Jap reactors actually did properly shut down (or so they say) which is why they are so relatively stable. The buildup of hydrogen and radioactive steam venting is status quo for those designs; not great but all things considered by far not the worst that could happen.

There are fault lines everywhere. Most just aren't major or haven't been active in some time. There is no place to build a reactor where there are no fault lines nearby. However, modern designs are now building in safety mechanisms which do not require power to shutdown or at least stabilize the reactor. However, we have none of those as all of ours are very old.
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Re: JAPAN!

Postby gunderwood » Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:12:09

Here is a good, but simple explanation.

http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/inf ... down-1456/

Meltdowns are bad because the intense pressure and heat mean that the containment structure may not be able to contain all of the fission material. It increases the odds of an explosion or just a leak of radioactive materials...much more radioactive then the steam they have vented. It also means the reactor core is toast, but that was already true as soon as they switched over to sea water. Impure water in a reactor core generally means it is too costly to reprocess and make it useful again.
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Re: JAPAN!

Postby OleMan » Mon, 14 Mar 2011 22:05:06

gunderwood wrote:Those Jap reactors are old designs which require water circulation even after shutdown for several days. IIRC, Lake Anna is of that era, but I don't recall what design it is off the top of my head. The problem is that the safety mechanism used all require power ( :doh: ). The Jap reactors actually did properly shut down (or so they say) which is why they are so relatively stable. The buildup of hydrogen and radioactive steam venting is status quo for those designs; not great but all things considered by far not the worst that could happen.

There are fault lines everywhere. Most just aren't major or haven't been active in some time. There is no place to build a reactor where there are no fault lines nearby. However, modern designs are now building in safety mechanisms which do not require power to shutdown or at least stabilize the reactor. However, we have none of those as all of ours are very old.


Yes, the Japanese reactors in question are, like most power station reactors, 'old' designs. The three damaged reactors are apparently boiling water reactors (BWR). Dominion's reactors - North Anna and Surry in VA - Millstone in CT - and Kewanee in WI, are all pressurized water reactors (PWR). A BWR at Millstone was decommissioned before Dominion bought the station. http://www.dom.com/about/stations/nuclear/index.jsp

Here is a reference to a list of reactors worldwide - probably mostly accurate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nu ... reactors_6

In the opinon of a nuclear expert in my family (over 30 years), older design BWRs have less margin for safety than PWRs.

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Re: JAPAN!

Postby Reverenddel » Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:32:41

Another way to test your survivalistic tendencies?

GO CAMPING!

I see so many "preppers" who keep buying gear, but NEVER test it. How do you know it works? Because of an ad? How do you know it does what you WANT it to do?

Again, I don't see the "Zombie/Guv'mint" side of things... I see natural disasters...

Now? I'm thinking about all the potassium Iodine from Emergency Essentials being SOLD OUT on the WEST COAST!


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Re: JAPAN!

Postby gunderwood » Tue, 15 Mar 2011 15:28:33

Reverenddel wrote:Another way to test your survivalistic tendencies?

GO CAMPING!

Not just camping, but backpacking. Load up your gear, use it, carry it for miles on end, use it again, etc. Learn how to use it. Learn what works and doesn't work. Consider that you will have to make compromises.

E.g. fast and light is sexy, but what happens when you have to live for weeks on end? What happens when you don't get to choose the weekend you go? Murphy's Law is what happens. You get stuck with gear that is light, but completely fails to work if the wind is more than 10MPH or the temp is <32F etc. However, you can't go too heavy or else the gear is limited to just camping from a car.

Reverenddel wrote:I see so many "preppers" who keep buying gear, but NEVER test it. How do you know it works? Because of an ad? How do you know it does what you WANT it to do?

Yes, they will be the ones looking for the directions that were suppose to come with the gear, but are now no where to be found or the guys with the 70lbs tent that only works well with pack animals/vehicles or the 2lbs tent which is fair weather only or the 12lbs sleeping bag or 25L of water storage, but no way to replenish it safely, etc.
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Re: JAPAN!

Postby grumpyMSG » Tue, 15 Mar 2011 18:59:36

gunderwood wrote:Those Jap reactors are old designs which require water circulation even after shutdown for several days. IIRC, Lake Anna is of that era, but I don't recall what design it is off the top of my head. The problem is that the safety mechanism used all require power ( :doh: ). The Jap reactors actually did properly shut down (or so they say) which is why they are so relatively stable. The buildup of hydrogen and radioactive steam venting is status quo for those designs; not great but all things considered by far not the worst that could happen.

There are fault lines everywhere. Most just aren't major or haven't been active in some time. There is no place to build a reactor where there are no fault lines nearby. However, modern designs are now building in safety mechanisms which do not require power to shutdown or at least stabilize the reactor. However, we have none of those as all of ours are very old.


As a co-worker of mine who spet several years running the reactors on a Nimitz class carrier said, everything worked the way it was supposed to in the reactor itself. What caused the overheating problems was the Tsunami took out the generators to power the cooling pumps. Everything survived the earthquake.
You just have to ask yourself, is he telling you the truth based on knowledge and experience or spreading internet myths?


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Re: JAPAN!

Postby zephyp » Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:32:49

gunderwood wrote:Not just camping, but backpacking. Load up your gear, use it, carry it for miles on end, use it again, etc. Learn how to use it. Learn what works and doesn't work. Consider that you will have to make compromises.


Yep and you will learn real quick what you really need and what can be left behind...even if you start out with a vehicle you may be forced to leave it somewhere. My plan is somewhere along the line you will have nothing to drive but yourself and spouse...
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Re: JAPAN!

Postby gunderwood » Wed, 16 Mar 2011 08:28:30

grumpyMSG wrote:As a co-worker of mine who spet several years running the reactors on a Nimitz class carrier said, everything worked the way it was supposed to in the reactor itself. What caused the overheating problems was the Tsunami took out the generators to power the cooling pumps. Everything survived the earthquake.

As far as the Japanese government has told us that is true. The reactors detected the quake and automatically shut down. The problem is that you just don't turn off a reactor like you do your car. Those things take days to weeks to totally cool off and thats with the proper water pumps (particularly this design). The tsunami swamped the diesel generators which were the backups for the grid which also was taken down by either the quake or tsunami (I haven't heard which and it really doesn't matter). Without water flowing through the reactor the heat and pressure build up. All of their actions so far (haven't read the news this morning) have been to keep the pressure and heat under control so that the containment structure should hold as designed. Everything gets more difficult if the reactor fuel melts and the risk of a large radiation release are much higher.
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Re: JAPAN!

Postby Reverenddel » Wed, 16 Mar 2011 10:07:28

CORRECT ON THE GEAR! DO THE HIKING! Because my camping campanions, and I dislike hot weather camping, we do winter camps...

Our gear is a bit sturdier than the stuff I see some preppers carrying, but it's not as heavy as car camping. Still, backpacking it a couple miles off the grid? You need to realize, you're not hard charging it... You've got your home, food, and clothes on your back... it's a marathon, not a dash. Slow, and steady wins the game.

What gets me is the SIZE is large, but the WEIGHT is not! Poncho Liners, 0 degree bags, insulated airpads, etc. all have SIZE, but not much WEIGHT!

One thing that cracks me up? People in the city going "Well? We'll have gas, and water because they don't use electricty."

Um... yeah, about that? They have GENERATORS for pumping that... when they go out? You have NOTHING!

Another thing that cracks me up? The differences between Les Stroud, and Bear Grylls. Bear has a "Gerber" line. Les has his own knife line as well. Look at the two... REAL...CAREFUL!

I'm more partial to Les' mentality.


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Re: JAPAN!

Postby gunderwood » Wed, 16 Mar 2011 11:22:32

Reverenddel wrote:Our gear is a bit sturdier than the stuff I see some preppers carrying, but it's not as heavy as car camping.

That is my preference too.


Reverenddel wrote:Still, backpacking it a couple miles off the grid? You need to realize, you're not hard charging it... You've got your home, food, and clothes on your back... it's a marathon, not a dash. Slow, and steady wins the game.

Absolutely.


Reverenddel wrote:What gets me is the SIZE is large, but the WEIGHT is not! Poncho Liners, 0 degree bags, insulated airpads, etc. all have SIZE, but not much WEIGHT!

Yes, if you have good gear. E.g. a camping Coleman sleeping bag is big and heavy. A Snugpak is light and small, but much warmer to boot!
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Re: JAPAN!

Postby Reverenddel » Wed, 16 Mar 2011 12:20:11

I'm still struggling with the SHTF 4x4 forum... Cannot decide. So i'm just gonna deal with boots on the ground, and a Civic in the driveway! HAHAHAH


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Re: JAPAN!

Postby gunderwood » Wed, 16 Mar 2011 13:23:37

Reverenddel wrote:I'm still struggling with the SHTF 4x4 forum... Cannot decide. So i'm just gonna deal with boots on the ground, and a Civic in the driveway! HAHAHAH

That's basically what I have for now. Can't justify the high costs of a truck when I actually need so rarely...then again I'm creative at packing so I can get a lot of stuff in such a small car. I've actually put a tarp in the trunk and hauled two deer in it. You can haul a lot of things people usually use trucks for if you just pack it properly. Short of furniture, weight and offroad have been the only real limitations.
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Re: JAPAN!

Postby zephyp » Thu, 17 Mar 2011 05:14:38

What irks me are all the lefties talking about whether or not our reactors are safe...plus states ordering inspections, etc, etc. I really have to give those folks in Japan a tip of my hat on this one. A magnitude 9 quake followed by a 30 foot tsunami and they werent damaged anymore than they were. Granted they are facing a metldown lets see one of our reactors suffer the same thing and not immediately explode...meanwhile obummer fiddles and makes his march madness picks in the WH on national tv...pretty lame...
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Re: JAPAN!

Postby OakRidgeStars » Thu, 17 Mar 2011 20:17:30

Some good news from Japan: Engineers have completed a cable to bring power to the stricken reactors, allowing them to turn on coolant pumps. Let's hope it works.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12779512


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Re: JAPAN!

Postby Reverenddel » Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:41:09

MORIOKA, Japan (AFP) – Ten days after Japan's tsunami disaster, towns far from the impact zone are still experiencing shortages that have thrown the neat, ordered lives of local residents completely out of gear.

Gas station queues stretching for several kilometres, long waits at supermarkets, empty store shelves and shuttered businesses have become a part of the landscape in post-tsunami Japan.

At the foot of the Mount Iwate volcano, the people of Morioka city -- almost 100 kilometres (60 miles) west of the devastated coast -- are still trying to adjust to the sudden absence of many things they had simply taken for granted.

At a gas station on the outskirts of the city, motorists waited hours on end before finally reaching the gas pump, clutching a 2,000 yen ($25, 17 euros) daily rationing coupon in their hands. The coupon is barely enough to buy a third of a tank on an average-sized city car.

One man wasted so much gas queuing up that his car ran dry and needed several people to push it up to the station.

Kabuya Kubo said she had waited for nearly six hours to put gas in her tank. Ever since the tsunami, she has had to bike to work whenever the car runs low on fuel -- a one-hour trip, versus 15 minutes by car.

"Now, again, I realize that electricity, gas, all of that is really important," she said. "Because there's no gas, I can't go anywhere that's far away. It's difficult."

Most gas stations have been cordoned off or closed for the better part of the day due to disruptions in the supply system caused by the March 11 earthquake and ensuing tsunami that devastated Japan's northeastern coastline.

The tidal wave that intruded 10 kilometres (six miles) inland in certain areas engulfed large tracts of arable land in the agriculturally rich prefectures of Iwate, Miyagi and Fukushima.

"There are no more meat and vegetables. I'm eating instant meals all the time," said Naohiko Seki. "I would like to regain my old life, but when I think about people who suffered from the tsunami, I tell myself I shouldn't complain."

A ramen noodle restaurant on the main shopping street downtown only offered a single type of plain fried rice for sale. There were no customers in sight at 2:00 pm and the usually busy room stood empty.

"Ever since the disaster, our suppliers haven't been able to reach us. We haven't been getting many customers recently," said cook Toshiyo Sasaki.

"Our restaurant is usually open 24/7 but now we can't stay open all the time. We have reduced working hours because we can't get the products we need."

As fresh produce grows scarcer, restaurants are serving more prepared foods and noodle- or rice-based dishes than ever before.

Convenience stores, usually open around the clock, had row after row of empty shelves, where prepared foods like the normally ubiquitous 'onigiri' rice balls, water and milk products once stood.

Popular French bakery Pompadour opened at 1:00 pm and had sold out its entire stock of bread and pastries in two hours.

Outside a shopping mall, a handful of school students held up signs about the tsunami disaster and asked customers for donations to buy food and clothes for the victims.

A group of green-clad boy and girl scouts on the main shopping street also urged passersby to donate -- and many did, even encouraging their young children to drop a few coins in the box.

Yoshii Sato said he was a "little afraid" for his very young daughter.

"It's really strange. The stores have almost no baby food and other items. It makes me uneasy and anxious. I am worried because I don't know whether or not I will be able to buy what my child needs," he said.

Still, Sato stressed that others had to cope with much worse.

"In Morioka, we are getting by okay, but toward the coast, many more people have lost their homes and are forced to suffer. We feel very sad for them."


**** THIS IS WHY WE PREP! Not "zombies", or "Evahl Black Heli-coptahs", THIS! After this? I'm picking up some F/D Veggies from Emergency Essentials. Peas, and Green Beans even rehydrated are better than NOTHING!****


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Re: JAPAN!

Postby TheGodfather » Thu, 07 Apr 2011 10:56:37

Breaking News: 7.4-Magnitude Earthquake Strikes Off Japan; Tsunami Alert Issued
"I don't talk to Obama voters often. But when I do, I order large fries."


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