Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

So I noticed a package in the mail today and upon opening it I saw it was a DVD on Defensive Shooting sent to me by the NRA. I though "That's kinda nice, maybe I'll learn something." but then I noticed a "Return envelope" and began to read the fine print. Basically I could keep the DVD and pay $13 or I could go thru the trouble to send it back. Obviously if the NRA has this kind of time and money to waste then they don't need me as a member. So I'm going to let me membership go(no reason to cancel as they just end up with more of my money) and put it towards VCDL and possibly SAF.

O and to top it off their return envelope is just a hair to small for the DVD so they aren't getting it back.

Their was a little coin with a Springfield 1903 on it. And shockingly it was free! Seriously what a waste.

So, kinda understand how you feel but this post could have just as easily been named "Why I'm Going to Let My US Citizenship Lapse..."

Both result in the same thing...you opt out of your right and ability to change things...if you dont like how the government is doing then vote...yeah I know they are all twits and one butthole gets replaced by another but the NRA is a little different. You can also vote in the NRA and you have the opportunity to rise up through the ranks potentially gaining a little more influence with each step...

Think about it Jake...if you dont like how they are running things then stick around and vote in the next election. Think hard about the opportunity when they send the offer to upgrade your membership...I know they are running amok but if we can get a few folks in there like us we can effect change.

Cant do that on the outside looking in...

I got the same DVD a few years back (well maybe not the same, but same principal...) I didn't pay attention to it until I got the bill for it. I basically wrote them a letter and told them that I didn't appreciate their unsolicited DVD and then the subsequent attempt at getting me to pay for something that I didn't ask for, and that I was keeping it anyway. Figured if they were going to resort to that type of marketing, I'd resort to being that type of customer. Haven't gotten anything like that since. I do pay for the membership, I like the magazine, but I ignore all the other solicitation attempts.

CCFan wrote:I got the same DVD a few years back (well maybe not the same, but same principal...) I didn't pay attention to it until I got the bill for it. I basically wrote them a letter and told them that I didn't appreciate their unsolicited DVD and then the subsequent attempt at getting me to pay for something that I didn't ask for, and that I was keeping it anyway. Figured if they were going to resort to that type of marketing, I'd resort to being that type of customer. Haven't gotten anything like that since. I do pay for the membership, I like the magazine, but I ignore all the other solicitation attempts.

That's how to do it right there.

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I too got the self defense DVD last year. But the way mine was worded was strange. It said I could keep it as a free gift or pay for it to continue to receive other DVD's in the series. It said if I pay for it, they will send out another DVD every other month.

So I kept it as a free gift.... about a month later I got a bill for the DVD. I called them up and asked why I got a bill. I was told that if I paid for it, my next dvd would be shipped out. I then got out the original envelope and read to her what it said on there. She said, yes that is true, but If I pay now for the DVD, the next one will be shipped. I simply told her "If you haven't received payment by now for the dvd, what makes you think I want the rest." Told her to have a good day and hung up.

Jakeiscrazy wrote:So I noticed a package in the mail today and upon opening it I saw it was a DVD on Defensive Shooting sent to me by the NRA. I though "That's kinda nice, maybe I'll learn something." but then I noticed a "Return envelope" and began to read the fine print. Basically I could keep the DVD and pay $13 or I could go thru the trouble to send it back. Obviously if the NRA has this kind of time and money to waste then they don't need me as a member. So I'm going to let me membership go(no reason to cancel as they just end up with more of my money) and put it towards VCDL and possibly SAF.

O and to top it off their return envelope is just a hair to small for the DVD so they aren't getting it back.

Their was a little coin with a Springfield 1903 on it. And shockingly it was free! Seriously what a waste.

Ah, deceit for money, and by the noble NRA (bringing you more "reasonable" gun control laws since 1871!) no less, will wonders never cease?

I recall getting that dvd about 18 months ago, I sent it back because I read the fine print, always do that when I'm dealing with people I don't trust.

Jakeiscrazy wrote:O and to top it off their return envelope is just a hair to small for the DVD so they aren't getting it back.

Both fit nicely in my shredder. Same as my last renewal notice.

The VCDL, GOA and SAF is where my donations go now.

When I get stuff in the mail I've never ordered I'm usually afflicted by short term, selective amnesia, and never recall receiving it.

CCFan wrote:I got the same DVD a few years back (well maybe not the same, but same principal...) I didn't pay attention to it until I got the bill for it. I basically wrote them a letter and told them that I didn't appreciate their unsolicited DVD and then the subsequent attempt at getting me to pay for something that I didn't ask for, and that I was keeping it anyway. Figured if they were going to resort to that type of marketing, I'd resort to being that type of customer. Haven't gotten anything like that since. I do pay for the membership, I like the magazine, but I ignore all the other solicitation attempts.

The annoying part is it's money they could be spending on lawsuits or advertising for more members. Instead of wasting members money to ship this nonsense back and forth then angering people by billing them.

That must have been sent out by some quite young marketing person that doesn't keep up with marketing history or federal law.
About 40 years ago (~the 1970s IIRC) it was made illegal to MAKE anyone pay for an unsolicited product mailed/shipped to them.
Anything that you receive like that you can consider a gift as far as the law is concerned.

That used to be a very common scam.

O and to top it off their return envelope is just a hair to small for the DVD

Now if you were an engineer you would have figured this out real quick...

Fold the DVD in 1/2 and it will fit in the envelope... easy-peasy! You see if they used a larger envelope it would have cost more money to ship back, thus the smaller one.

Do us engineers have to figger every'tn out fer youse guyz?

AlanM wrote:That must have been sent out by some quite young marketing person that doesn't keep up with marketing history or federal law.
About 40 years ago (~the 1970s IIRC) it was made illegal to MAKE anyone pay for an unsolicited product mailed/shipped to them.
Anything that you receive like that you can consider a gift as far as the law is concerned.

That used to be a very common scam.

I have that from a couple different people now. Anyone know the laws name? Google searches came up with nothing. I would like to have the law on had to cite to them when I give them a call on Monday.

Pumbaa wrote:

O and to top it off their return envelope is just a hair to small for the DVD

Now if you were an engineer you would have figured this out real quick...

Fold the DVD in 1/2 and it will fit in the envelope... easy-peasy! You see if they used a larger envelope it would have cost more money to ship back, thus the smaller one.

Do us engineers have to figger every'tn out fer youse guyz?

hahaha Good one Pumbaa. I have a DVD folder out in the garage:

allingeneral wrote:

Pumbaa wrote:

O and to top it off their return envelope is just a hair to small for the DVD

Now if you were an engineer you would have figured this out real quick...

Fold the DVD in 1/2 and it will fit in the envelope... easy-peasy! You see if they used a larger envelope it would have cost more money to ship back, thus the smaller one.

Do us engineers have to figger every'tn out fer youse guyz?

hahaha Good one Pumbaa. I have a DVD folder out in the garage:

Shame on you! All DVDs are to be shot in half with an appropriate firearm!

It seems like most things I joined would ask for money all time. Feels like my dues are paying for alot of envelopes and stamps. I have decided to protect myself. My family and I are more important than any stupid gun control law. I do vote. I dont like lobbyists of any kind. What kind of name is Charlton anyway? Bet it was Charles really.

I got a DVD and coin a while back. It said pay and keep the DVD or send it back. I seem to remember the fine print also said that there was no way to make me pay, so of course I could keep it anyway.

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rromeo wrote:I got a DVD and coin a while back. It said pay and keep the DVD or send it back. I seem to remember the fine print also said that there was no way to make me pay, so of course I could keep it anyway.

I got the same junk sometime this spring... then got the bill for not sending it back... completely ignored both. Not even sure where the DVD is anymore. I too don't appreciate all the junk mail from them, but I'll continue to be a member for the time being. VCDL is on the list to join soon.

They did that to me several years ago, with the stupid coin. I just ignored the "invoices", since it was an unsolicited gift. I don't get much NRA marketing anymore - just the insurance come-ons.

Jakeiscrazy wrote:The annoying part is it's money they could be spending on lawsuits or advertising for more members. Instead of wasting members money to ship this nonsense back and forth then angering people by billing them.

NRA contracts out all these fundraising things to for-profit companies. The companies make money off the suckers and send a cut to NRA.

It's distasteful, but I expect Executive-Vice-President-For-Life Wayne or his kids/brothers/buddies have a stake in the contractors, so it'll continue.

Jakeiscrazy wrote:

AlanM wrote:That must have been sent out by some quite young marketing person that doesn't keep up with marketing history or federal law.
About 40 years ago (~the 1970s IIRC) it was made illegal to MAKE anyone pay for an unsolicited product mailed/shipped to them.
Anything that you receive like that you can consider a gift as far as the law is concerned.

That used to be a very common scam.

I have that from a couple different people now. Anyone know the laws name? Google searches came up with nothing. I would like to have the law on had to cite to them when I give them a call on Monday.

I swear! My Google Fu is GREAT today! First try I searched for "unrequested product mail gift" and got a hit on the USPS site.

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/inve ... Fraud.aspx

Jakeiscrazy wrote:

AlanM wrote:That must have been sent out by some quite young marketing person that doesn't keep up with marketing history or federal law.
About 40 years ago (~the 1970s IIRC) it was made illegal to MAKE anyone pay for an unsolicited product mailed/shipped to them.
Anything that you receive like that you can consider a gift as far as the law is concerned.

That used to be a very common scam.

I have that from a couple different people now. Anyone know the laws name? Google searches came up with nothing. I would like to have the law on had to cite to them when I give them a call on Monday.

Here ya go Jake,

From the USPS...

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/inve ... Fraud.aspx

Looks like Alan beat me to it! Oh well.

@Alan: Yes, this marketing technique IS old but it is seeing a resurgence. It's a form of a forced continuity program. One of the best known is the "Choose 17 CD's for Just One Penny" type promotion that has been around for years... and still going.

We continue to see variations of this type of promotion for one reason only... it works. And the fact that the NRA has been using it for years suggests the program produces a profit.

For the record...

While I'm no raving fan of the NRA, I'd be willing to guess they are not going to continue any marketing program that loses money. Does that mean that everything they try works? No. Just like you are likely to try several weapon/ammo combinations, techniques, etc. Not everything works for you. This doesn't mean the idea is invalid, but it is not suitable for you. It might work well for someone else.

When I first read Jake's post, I tended to agree with him. Then when I considered the marketing aspects of what they are doing, I changed my mind. The fact is, the NRA membership consists of all types of people. All members have one thing in common, they believe enough in 2nd amendment rights to join. Most spend a great deal of money on firearms and related products every year. This membership list represents a strong market.

I would suggest, the NRA would be doing all members a disfavor if they did NOT recognize this and refused to sell anything to members. Why? Profit. If you are going to buy a knife anyway, why not buy an NRA knife? As a non-profit organization any proceeds go, in one way or another, to protecting our rights.

If, as a member, you don't agree with HOW they are going about their mission, then by all means, lobby within the NRA to make your views known. However, I urge you to check out their annual report and find out how much revenue their marketing brings in. If their marketing program loses money, then you have a right and a duty to scream bloody murder (by blunt object, of course .

Andy