Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

- Over the two-year period May 2007 through April 2009, concealed handgun permit
holders have slain seven law enforcement officers resulting in criminal charges or the
suicide of the shooter. All of the killings were committed with guns. An additional three
law enforcement officers were injured in these incidents.
- Over the two-year period May 2007 through April 2009, concealed handgun permit
holders have slain at least 43 private citizens resulting in criminal charges or the
suicide of the shooter. All but one of the killings were committed with guns. An additional
six private citizens were injured in these incidents.
- In six of the 30 incidents (20 percent), the concealed handgun permit holder killed
himself, bringing the total fatality count to 56.
Source: http://www.vpc.org/studies/ccw2009.pdf
One important attribute of the vast majority of these homicides and suicides is that the parties knew each other or were the result of domestic disputes or arguments. These incidents ALL involved concealed carry holders. In many cases the CC permit was issued in spite of prior violence or even convictions or court restraining orders.
As gun owners and CC permit holders, it seems to me we need to support and promote conflict resolution education for all gun owners and especially CC holders. As CC permit holders, we should model respectful behavior and model unemotional conflict resolution and certainly avoid insulting and accusatory language. As I have said before, we need to be more polite, neighborly and respectful than the average Joe to show our dedication to resolving conflict peacefully and without the use of firearms.
While I am not suggesting that concealed carry permits should be more restrictive, I am suggesting that the permitting process should do a better job of filtering out people who have past histories of violence.
And, it is clear to me that we need the CC permitting regulations in place to prevent gun violence. Perhaps as part of the CC required training, CC applicants should also be required to attend a conflict resolution course as well.

SEVEN law enforcement officers died at the hands of CC Holders. That should never happen unless the policeman was at fault.
Dems4Guns

"As CC permit holders, we should model respectful behavior and model unemotional conflict resolution and certainly avoid insulting and accusatory language. As I have said before, we need to be more polite, neighborly and respectful than the average Joe to show our dedication to resolving conflict peacefully and without the use of firearms. "

Couldnt agree more.

I am suggesting that the permitting process should do a better job of filtering out people who have past histories of violence.
And, it is clear to me that we need the CC permitting regulations in place to prevent gun violence.

I'm uncomfortable now. My attitude towards gun control has changed over the last few years, moving more to the side of less control. I simply do not trust those that attempt to levy more restriction of any type. It is unfortunate - many ideas sound good on the surface - such as restricting cc permitting to anyone that has ever been questioned in regard to mental illness. The problem is, we cannot expect any type of restriction to be fairly applied in any reasonable manner. Too many gun control advocates would like to slowly erode our rights to the point of eliminating private ownership altogether. At one point in the past, I may have agreed that 30 round mags could be outlawed - not so now.
So, that drives me to the opposite extreme - I feel I have to go there in order to protect reasonable rights.
Those reasonable rights being my right to openly carry, concealed carry, own any gun I choose, without a test, poll tax, or permit.

- Over the two-year period May 2007 through April 2009, concealed handgun permit
holders have slain seven law enforcement officers resulting in criminal charges or the
suicide of the shooter. All of the killings were committed with guns. An additional three
law enforcement officers were injured in these incidents.
- Over the two-year period May 2007 through April 2009, concealed handgun permit
holders have slain at least 43 private citizens resulting in criminal charges or the
suicide of the shooter. All but one of the killings were

50 deaths over two years, better clamp down now.

http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalS ... sheet.html

Every day, about ten people die from unintentional drowning. Of these, two are children aged 14 or younger. Drowning is the sixth leading cause of unintentional injury death for people of all ages, and the second leading cause of death for children ages 1 to 14 years.1

This common liquid state of matter is clearly a threat and better steps need be taken to prevent those two dangerous hydrogen molecules from forming a bond with one oxygen molecule. Perhaps waiting periods and stricter background checks would prevent those ten deaths daily. Irregardless action must be taken-most drownings affect children and WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?

And yet, guns are used defensively approximately two million times per year.
Source: http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

Here is some more interesting reading for you: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/download ... s_v3.2.pdf

The fact is, these people did not suddenly "snap" and start randomly killing police and others. These people had been in a downward spiral for some time. They were able to hide it for only so long.

Is there a perfect way to ensure things like this never happen? NO! Is more regulation the answer? I don't believe so. The regulations already in place have been proven time and again to be ineffective.

Conclusion
The conclusion is inescapable that state “shall issue” concealed handgun laws sanction the carrying
of concealed handguns by many dangerous individuals. At worst, they have resulted in the
expenditure of state funds to arm many individuals who have murdered numerous law enforcement
agents and innocent private citizens. The evidence to date not only clearly stands in clear opposition
to any effort to federalize CCW reciprocity in a manner that would establish a de facto national
concealed handgun system, but also makes clear that such laws on the state level should be repealed.

Disagree.

Now, compare these numbers to the total number of murders committed with guns, in general, over the same geographical area and time period. I don't have the numbers, but I am confident that CCW holders are a minuscule fraction of the total set.

"That should never happen "

That is a very immature statement that is meant to engender the type of agreement one gets while on stage in Chitcago yellin' "I love Chitcago!" It is childish and elementary.

Rough estimate, there are 20,000 murders in the USA. You want to highlight 50 victims because they were murdered by CHP holders?

You provide Josh Sugarman's VPC as a source? This is the anus who admits that he intended to fool free citizens into giving away their freedom to own semi auto AR15's because they look identical to their full auto counterparts (Class 3 machine guns)! This anus is an FFL in DC (which is in itself a violation of BATFE regs as he doesn't engage in firearms sales or transfers).

You are and shall forever be a statist troll and a pro freedom faker. Your every post proves it.

Wonderful news! A few more laws and regulations and Utopia is just around the corner!
I eat when I can't stand the suspense...

Palladin wrote:Wonderful news! A few more laws and regulations and Utopia is just around the corner!
I eat when I can't stand the suspense...

Sounds good to me!

Well la de freaking da,how the freak about that,

People are people. Some are going to do good amazing things and some are going to do terrible things. Many many people have been law abiding citizens until they do X, then they are not. As CHL'ers do we hope that those who would take the time to learn and train about weapons would be good decent people, yes we hope so. However, lets be realistic people are people, imperfect and flawed. No amount of laws, regulations, nor public service statements are going to change that. As there are more and more people getting CHL's expect that there will be numbers wise a greater number of CHL'ers getting into trouble, but what we should look at more than the #'s is the percentages of CHl'ers getting into trouble with guns vs average citizens--then we might have something to talk about.

mamabearCali wrote:People are people. Some are going to do good amazing things and some are going to do terrible things. Many many people have been law abiding citizens until they do X, then they are not. As CHL'ers do we hope that those who would take the time to learn and train about weapons would be good decent people, yes we hope so. However, lets be realistic people are people, imperfect and flawed. No amount of laws, regulations, nor public service statements are going to change that. As there are more and more people getting CHL's expect that there will be numbers wise a greater number of CHL'ers getting into trouble, but what we should look at more than the #'s is the percentages of CHl'ers getting into trouble with guns vs average citizens--then we might have something to talk about.

+1

I think I'm in love with mamabear!

Rather than allow this troll of a thread to continue, it is being locked and placed in the abyss.

Strike 1 - Quoting the VPC
Strike 2 - Suggesting that the VPC is correct
Strike 3 - Conflict resolution training? Really?

I'm resolving this conflict by locking this thread. There - no training needed here.