Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

A buddy of mine is contemplating getting an entry level varmint rifle and scope, 20lb critters and less, mostly groundhogs, at ranges under 200 yards.

Any thoughts on the chambering? He's looking at the cartridges listed above, open to any suggestions (the .17 family).

Trying to keep the rifle/scope combo under $800 - less than that buys more ammo.

I think he couldn't go wrong with a Remington SPS in .223 Remington, They are available with a decent (not great) 3X9 scope for under $600 if you look around a little. Other folks would swear that a Savage Axis is a great rifle for the money (around $350) and It would leave money for a better scope. I wouldn't argue against that route. The reason I would stick with .223 would be easy availability of ammo, a good variety of rounds from 40 to 77 grains are available. The price for .223 won't kill you either.

.223 is available not just at sporting goods stores and gun stores but also a places like WalMart. Also easier to find reloading supplies for if you start reloading.

The most accurate centerfire rifle I own (or have ever shot) is a Rem. M700 varmint special (in .223 Rem.) I bought back in the early 80's.

I have read a lot of good things about the Savage varmint rifles (sometimes Dick's Sporting Goods has them on sale for a pretty good price). But I have not shot one.

IMHO, the CZ varmint rifles are excellent. 200 yards is stretching it a bit for the high end rimfires like 17hmr on groundhogs, but it can work. A 455/453/452 would be a good choice unless he's looking at centerfires only. I keep meaning to pick one up for short range work, but my 6mmBR and .300WSM "varmint" rifles are just more fun. IIRC, certain county's in VA don't allow centerfires for varmints?

If he wants centerfire, I'd go with the 527 Varmints in either .204Ruger or .223Rem. .223 will be slightly easier to find ammo for, but either really isn't hard. Personally, I'd take the .204Ruger.

Does he reload? It makes a difference. I have rifles in all three of the stated chamberings, but I use my 22 Hornet the most for 200 yards and under. If he doesn't reload, the .223 is the obvious choice. The .204 is a spectacular round, but has all the disadvantages of both of the others. It's as loud as the .223, and has the wind drift of the 22 Hornet. It is also the costliest of the three to feed factory ammo. For a new varmint shooter, I think the .223 in a Savage 110, CZ 527 or Remington 700 would be hard to beat.

No, he doesn't reload, and won't be reloading in the future.

I've got a single shot Hornet, a T/CR '87 with set trigger, that in my hands is pure poison out to 125yds. I've made longer shots with it, but it's something you need to put some thought into before squeezing that round off. I do reload for it, and would be able to reload for him but T/CRs are kind of scarce anymore.

The Hornet's report is more in line with what he's looking for (because of neighbors), but the decisive effect of the two larger chamberings means they won't be hearing it that often anyway.

I appreciate the thoughts and will relay the info.

Sensai wrote:Does he reload? It makes a difference. I have rifles in all three of the stated chamberings, but I use my 22 Hornet the most for 200 yards and under. If he doesn't reload, the .223 is the obvious choice. The .204 is a spectacular round, but has all the disadvantages of both of the others. It's as loud as the .223, and has the wind drift of the 22 Hornet. It is also the costliest of the three to feed factory ammo. For a new varmint shooter, I think the .223 in a Savage 110, CZ 527 or Remington 700 would be hard to beat.

If he only has 200 yards to shoot I doubt he has enough groundhogs to notice the difference in ammo cost between a .223 and a .204. Sure it's there, but is $75 all that different than $60..especially after spending hundreds on a rifle? Now noise is another situation all together. I'd look into a .17HMR or .22WMR. Anything super sonic isn't going to be very quite, but the less powder the better.

Part of the fun of groundhog hunting for me was in seeing how close I could get before I took the shot. I used a Rem 700 in .223 and would again today - but a rimfire up close works, too. Headshots, headshots, headshots.

Okay, so I wasn't entirely on the up and up with the buddy info... he's a she and yep - it's my Mom! She makes the Beav look like a big spender when it comes to parting with George, and when the talking was all done she decided on a Savage Axis in .223, with a Bushnell 3X9. She didn't want anything fancy, no frills -just kills. It came in today. After busting three waterjugs at 100, 150 and 200 yards, she printed this on paper at 210yds. Holy cow! Not bad for a 75 year old lady.

Well Faith and Begorra, Mammy, if you can't put those groundhogs down now, I don't think I can help you!

Mmmmm-hmmm. That's *my* Mama!
You as proud as I am, bro?

Them's headshots for sure...

Heck yeah!

Ol' whistlepig might as well start stinkin now, cause he's as good as dead!

That's a pretty nice grouping. What kind of ammo was that with?

Sooper-secret handloads... ...(actually I don't have specifics on the load). Glen may know - I just couldn't resist the comment!

Dogtown bullets, checkin' on the powder...


The fellow that helped her sight in just about crapped himself when he cloverleafed his first three shots at 100yds... and he has some really nice big time varmint guns.
Cant wait to really wring out that baby and see just what she can do...


(The ammo in the pic is some 50gr HPs by UMC that I put through it to check on POI changes... They grouped 5" away and nowhere near as tight as the handloads. Still one minute of groundhog, but not worth changing the scope.
She said she'd stick with the handloads.

I wondered if those were handloads or factory rounds. It looks like you've found the load it likes.

I have a Savage 12FV in .204 and it is a great on the whistle pigs. No guesswork from 100-350 yards, you just point & shoot. I had to bed the action because the cheap Savage stock sucked. I embedded a steel rod in the forend and affixed with Brownell's AcraGlas gel. The problem was then it was to front heavy so I removed the recoil pad and mixed a bowl of tiger hair body filler with the shot from about 5 or 6 shotgun shells and put it in the hollow of the buttstock. Now the gun has great balance but it is as heavy as a horse. It shoots like a rifle costing many times more but it's no fun carting it around. When we are being lazy and shooting from a fixed position I always take the Savage .204 because it makes me look like a pro sniper on the dogs. For walk-around varminting I like my CZ 527 Varmint laminate in .223. It is easy to carry and dead-nuts accurate with my hand loads. It wears a Bushnell 3200 Elite Tactical 10x40 fixed power. Simply a wonderful rifle. The Savage has seen more action because I have owned it longer but I see the CZ turning into a favorite very quickly. no pics of the Savage on this computer but here are a couple of the CZ. Enjoy!

That's a beautiful rifle .

VAman wrote:That's a beautiful rifle .

Thanks man!