Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

This discussion should be popcorn-worthy

http://battleland.blogs.time.com/2011/0 ... he-broken/

Feelin' the pain...

That's one way to gauge it. Being a grunt who trained on Sand Hill, I'll admit Marines have it tougher.
I'm embarrassed to say that even the Marine P.O.G.s are better trained in marksmanship than we were as Infantry Soldiers.
I wish the Army would have copied the Marines more closely on the combat training.

Whar's Bill ?!!!

"toughest training" might have better been called "toughest basic training"....

That said once you get out of basic training/boot camp and into more specialized training each service has much tougher programs for their 'special forces'.... The MC's Scout-sniper program is nothing to sneeze at but I doubt I could have made it through some of the services' programs.

Semper Fi!
CW

Obviously the Navy...I heard to graduate basic the seamen have to be able to get an entire pineapple shoved up the poop deck by the rear admiral.

That is a question that shouldn't even need to be asked....just ask any Marine

Semper Fi

Palladin wrote:Whar's Bill ?!!!

So far, he's not taking the bait

Alright, I'll weigh in here. The Air Force has a specialist program publicly called Combat Controllers. These men serve as combat paramedics, air traffic controllers and front line combatants. Before the marines land anywhere, they are there. Before any flights (sorties) are realized, they are there. Before any men hit the ground with arms ready to fight, they have been there and "tracked" enemy movements, set up communications, achieved a LZ and had a cup of coffee. I have been blessed to serve with these men as well as seal team 8, Army rangers, green berets and some delta force. I realize this is off subject, but the CIA has several departmental segments that have extremely tough training such as Psych OP's development and the NSA's anti-terrorist unit (used primarily abroad). I have seen some others on here that are combat experienced as well, tell them what you think! All men and women who serve or served honorably have the right to say theirs was the toughest IMHO!

OakRidgeStars wrote:So far, he's not taking the bait

I had the pleasure of spending quality time with my good friend Bill yesterday...please dont kid yourself...

Will post my thoughts when I get to a computer..I will drunk the myth of every Marine is a rifleman theory lmao...stand bye

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

Kreutz wrote:Obviously the Navy...I heard to graduate basic the seamen have to be able to get an entire pineapple shoved up the poop deck by the rear admiral.

The Village People really gave the Navy a bad name.

zephyp wrote:

OakRidgeStars wrote:So far, he's not taking the bait

I had the pleasure of spending quality time with my good friend Bill yesterday...please dont kid yourself...

We miss you, Bill!

To begin. Each branch has their own basic/boot camps which teach BASIC skill sets, each with a particular emphasis on whatever that branch is designated for. To base an opinion simply on the most basic courses each branch offers is an injustice, different strokes for different folks. With that out of the way, most trigger pullers attend the same, or very similar courses, regardless of branch. I my self, being prior active duty Air Force and currently in the reserves, have gone to many Army schools that are open to only combat arms folks. With those examples in mind it is impossible to determine which branch has the "toughest" training. Now if you were to narrow the scope, say 11b or 0311; only then could you reasonably deduct an answer. Yet even then it would be completely subjective. So their is no real answer to this question. To add, I didn't read the article but merely glanced at the table. Most of those aren't "basic" courses, in fact they are OSUT bases which combines basic training and whatever AIT would be the follow on I.E. Ft. Knox, which is a mix of BCT and Armor school. And it would make sense the MCRD would have a higher than average level of stress fractures due to the fact they do ruck marches. To those of us that have done many a ruck in our day, it is very easy to understand why somebody off the street would have issues with this after only a few weeks of boot camp.

Army helicopter training during the Vietnam era. Killed more people than any other military training school or activity.

Im sure it did.....Thank god this is not the Vietnam era anymore.

That's one way to gauge it. Being a grunt who trained on Sand Hill, I'll admit Marines have it tougher.
I'm embarrassed to say that even the Marine P.O.G.s are better trained in marksmanship than we were as Infantry Soldiers.
I wish the Army would have copied the Marines more closely on the combat training.


....what????? That makes entirely no sense at all....I seriously have doubts about your credibility after reading that.

All marine recruits engage KD upto 500. Army doesn't go over 300, this includes infantry in AIT.
This is a well known fact.

They also do standing and kneeling. When I went through, we did fox hole and prone (supported and not).
I do believe that has since changed though.

Just because they're all trained better doesn't mean they all shoot better.

What do you have to doubt?

Salvation Army!

Living off the word of God, not an MRE in sight, and carrying a kettle with them "arms"! EVERYWHERE!

All marine recruits engage KD upto 500. Army doesn't go over 300, this includes infantry in AIT.
This is a well known fact.

They also do standing and kneeling. When I went through, we did fox hole and prone (supported and not).
I do believe that has since changed though.

Just because they're all trained better doesn't mean they all shoot better.

What do you have to doubt?

500m on a kd range isn't that hard...and that has since changed as you now do prone, kneelin,g and over barricade, quick reaction drills, weak hand, night fire, burst fire, and fire with your gas mask as part of your qualifications. Also a POG Marine qualifys what, maybe every 6 months if they are lucky? However 11 series does fam firing, CQM firing, Live fire MOUT you name it the list is very extensive. A lot different than firing at 500m KD range. Also food for thought "In Iraq, the average range of engagement for infantry was under a hundred meters" Not saying we should have the capability for farther but also keep in mind most squads are running with SDM's now. The purpose is to shoot, move, and communicate. And that's what we train to do.

I have to admit, I went to Great Lakes for basic in 1983 and I didn't find it all that difficult. I'm not trying to put down my own beloved USN but the advanced avionics training after boot camp was a lot more difficult in the mental way. Physically, just coming out of high school, it wasn't too bad. I wish my body was in that good of shape now. Now, what used to be my chest and shoulders, has relocated to my belly and my ass and my hair went from my head to my ears, nose and back.