Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

So what are you'll opinions on the Heavy Barrel vs M4 Profile Barrel on a .223 AR-15? What are the advantages and disadvantages of each design?

Heavy barrels take longer to heat up and cool down, and have the potential for more accuracy. Lighter barrels are easier to sling, shoot, and carry for longer periods of time, and tend to get on target quicker. An M4 barrel also has a cutout for mounting a grendade launcher.

I'm starting to move more towards 16" - 18" mid-length ARs. I've had 20" HBARS and 14.5" M4 profile uppers. I love the looks and light weight of the M4 profile with the M203 cut-out, but 16" - 18" heavy barrels barrels kinda split the difference between weight, pointability, and accuracy.

I have two M4geries, one 14.5" in 5.56 and one 16" in 6.8 SPC. I have two SPRs built, an 18" in 5.56 and a 20" in 6.8 SPC. The shorter carbines are great if you're clearing rooms, and have decent accuracy with the right glass. The two SPRs are for 300 yards and out. The 18" has very little recoil due to the weight and the muzzle brake/flash suppressor I have on it. I've run the 14.5" during a 3-gun match, and the recoil is there but manageable. I use the two 6.8s as deer guns. The shorty 6.8 is a nice brush gun, and I need to put a lower magnification scope on it at some point. BTW, the 18" I built is modeled on the Army DM rifle.

I have an HBAR and want to get rid of it. I'm not much of a bench shooter.
They are great for some people, not so much for others.

I have both and dont notice any difference. I prefer the lighter barrels

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If you don't have a grenade launcher you probably don't "need" a barrel cut for one. I know most carbines have them but its just a wasted motion on the lathe when manufactured for most of ut.

How many of us dump 200 round through our rifle in a few minutes? How many of us dump 100 rounds through our rifles in a few minutes? How many of us that do either have shot a group with the barrel cold, then shot a group with the barrel still hot and compared the two groups (cold barrel vs. hot barrel)?

My favorite .223 caliber AR has a RRA light weight profile 16" barrel on it. It has a free float tup on it for two reasons, one is because I use a sling when shooting and did not want the sling pulling on the barrel, and second because its a skinny barrel.

How many of us live anywhere where you can shoot the rifle farther than 100 or 200 yds? How accurate does you rifle need to be do hit what you want/need to hit with it? I have a couple that I could absolutely small game hunt with and make headshots on squirrels and rabbits out past 25 yds. I get dime sized groups at 25 yds.

Not trying to throw a wet blanket on anyone's desire to mod their rifle (that is one of the neat things about AR15s isn't it). Just be sure you're spending your money on the right things to make your rifle more usable vs. spending money on some feature/accessory that you and the rifle won't benefit from. A lot of folks would have been better off buying an extra couple thousand rounds of .223 ammo vs. big name stocks, barrels, optics, etc. considering the current ammo shortage and uncertainty about how long it will last or what the cost of ammo will be when it ends.

I have HBAR A2 from Pre-Clinton ban, a 300-221 SBR, and a lightweight 16".

M1A4ME wrote: How many of us dump 200 round through our rifle in a few minutes? How many of us dump 100 rounds through our rifles in a few minutes? How many of us that do either have shot a group with the barrel cold, then shot a group with the barrel still hot and compared the two groups (cold barrel vs. hot barrel)?

Been there done that, but odds are I will not do it again unless someone is shooting at me. Even then, I am better off not bump firing.

Yes, I have shot hot barrel and cold on several rifles. Each load is different. Some group better with hot barrel. Some group better with cold barrels.

M1A4ME wrote: My favorite .223 caliber AR has a RRA light weight profile 16" barrel on it. It has a free float tup on it for two reasons, one is because I use a sling when shooting and did not want the sling pulling on the barrel, and second because its a skinny barrel.

My go to rifle is a 16" lightweight with free float rail. If I had to do it again, I would keep the front post and have a shorter lighter weight rail.

If I had waited until the 300blk had come out and gotten more ammo stocked up.....the SBR could be my go to gun.

M1A4ME wrote: How many of us live anywhere where you can shoot the rifle farther than 100 or 200 yds? How accurate does you rifle need to be do hit what you want/need to hit with it? I have a couple that I could absolutely small game hunt with and make headshots on squirrels and rabbits out past 25 yds. I get dime sized groups at 25 yds.

I use to live somewhere I could shoot groundhogs out to 300+ yards. Where I am now, if the SHTF, I could shoot 500+ yards.

Barrel length has very little to do with accuracy (yes there are extremes, but....).
Barrel length does effect velocity.
Velocity effect terminal ballistics (especially so on military surplus in 5.56)

IMHO, anything under 14.5 is not something I want in 5.56. 14.5" would be ok if I was going to be kicking down doors and clearing houses, but not for longer shots. 16" turns out to be good for any shooting I do. 18-20" I have an HBAR, I want an SPR. I don't have a NEED for an SPR, but I WANT and SPR.

M1A4ME wrote: Not trying to throw a wet blanket on anyone's desire to mod their rifle (that is one of the neat things about AR15s isn't it). Just be sure you're spending your money on the right things to make your rifle more usable vs. spending money on some feature/accessory that you and the rifle won't benefit from. A lot of folks would have been better off buying an extra couple thousand rounds of .223 ammo vs. big name stocks, barrels, optics, etc. considering the current ammo shortage and uncertainty about how long it will last or what the cost of ammo will be when it ends.

A2 stock is OK, but PRS is worth it if you really want to get all the accuracy your gun can deliver.
M4 sucks in comparison to almost everything out there.
Some cheaper barrels will not run steel cased ammo. Beyond that.....
Optics depends on what you want to do with the gun. A cheap red dot may do everything you need to do, on the other precision load testing......more power. I think a 3-12 is best for hunting. I think right now a 1-6 or 2-10 would be great for SHTF. BUT I am still testing my theories.
LaRue QR mounts are great. It will allow you to use more than one optic on your rifle (i.e. one to test loads, one for SHTF, one if you decide to shoot a conversion unit)
Like the military, I have have gotten away without having PMAGs for a long time. You can get AL mags for $13-15. When PMAGS get back down to $15.... (BTW, I do have some PMAGS, but I haven't got around to testing them.)

AMMO:
Your rifle is a club without ammo. Buy it cheap, stack it deep.

Lucky gunner did a test on steel ammo. It is worth looking into.

Buy a 22LR conversion unit so you can practice cheap. It also make your rifle better for SHTF.
Trigger time is important.



What am I forgetting?

People like the M4 barrel for looks. Personally don't have a use for the notch, but it's not a big deal either way. The quality of the barrel is far more important. However, the M4 barrel is heavier than the original for sustained fire capability. For a defense rifle, I don't really care about increased accuracy of the heavier barrel, etc. It's all about ability to sustain higher rates of fire. My thoughts are:

SHTF rifle, go heavy/M4 just in case. Once the barrel is too hot your done. Obviously hope I never need it, but if I do I want it to just work.

HD/SD rifle, the lightweight barrels are nice because you likely didn't have time to grab enough ammo (even with 60/100rnd Surefire mags) for it to matter. However, for most people their HD/SD and SHTF are the exact same. Pay your money, make your choices.