Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

I've started looking into securing my toys of late. I didn't know there would be so many things to consider.....price and size are a given. However, HOW I'm gonna get it in the building is another affair. Most local place DON'T deliver. How large should I go?" I understand most safe owners complain they wish they had purchased a larger one within the first year..... Then there is, "is the safe really SAFE?" Or just a bump in the road for a few minutes? I'd like to stay under 1K also.

Help me out here fellas. This will be my first time purchasing one. I'll take all the tips, pointers and leads can get. Gander Mountain seems to have the best local selection and competitive pricing. Should I be looking somewhere else? I'm also not opposed to pickup a used one for the right price.

A safe is a big investment and if you need one then you probably have guns worth protecting. Don't skimp. And you are correct the biggest complaint is "I wish I had gotten a bigger one." The biggest concern after your purchase is delivery and placement. I have a Liberty Fat Boy and it took 4 great big men to deliver it. No stairs either. Just more or less level ground and one small incline.

Gun safes arent really safes either. Technically they are security containers and rated for how long they will deter an intruder. Most are also fire rated. You can make most safes far more secure merely by anchoring them to a concrete floor so they cant be tipped over.

For local delivery call some of the locksmiths. They may even have a showroom nearby with safes. I bought mine from a local locksmith 2 miles away and paid around $300 for delivery and installation. Worth every penny.

Since you're most likely on a budget avoid high end safes as you can find cheaper models with similar entry/fire ratings but dont look quite as nice. Pay attention to how many door bolts there are. Are they on both sides of the door, top/bottom? Can the safe be anchored to the floor. How much does it weigh...heavier is generally better. Shelves on the inside...easily configurable...

You can put things like a light, dehumidifier, mirror in later so dont let those add to the initial cost.

Do lots of research...good luck.

Check out Liberty Safe and see if there is a dealer in your area.

http://www.libertysafe.com/

I have a Centurion 20 and couldn't be happier with it.

ChicagoGuy wrote:However, HOW I'm gonna get it in the building is another affair. Most local place DON'T deliver.

Once you get heavier than an appliance dolly can handle delivery gets very difficult and expensive. There are companies which specialize in this sort of thing, but they are not cheap. Stay around the 700-800lbs range at most if you want to be able to move it relatively easy. Call around, but usually above that weight range they need to take special precautions, etc.

ChicagoGuy wrote:Then there is, "is the safe really SAFE?" Or just a bump in the road for a few minutes? I'd like to stay under 1K also.

Technically there is no such thing as safety; you can not reduce the risk of anything to absolutely zero. Most gun safes are not security safes as well. They are mostly "thin" steel over drywall. If you search youtube you will will see demonstrations of just how easy they are to pry open or simply cut through the sides with an axe. They do provide some level of protection against people who don't wish to damage the safe (kids, etc.). One of the things to be aware of is that most safe ratings are only for the door! Unless it specifies "x6" the security rating was only tested by attacking the door. Some companies put a strong door on a week safe to get a good rating. However, for $1k, you really aren't going to be able to touch a real security safe as they usually run 5-10x that in the sizes we are talking about. They also weigh well into the thousands of pounds.

Residential Security Container (RSC) is 5mins with basic hand tools...if it doesn't have that you can assume that it can be broke in less than 5mins. Remember, door attacks only! TL-15, TL-30, TL-60: Power tools for 15mins, 30mins, 60mins respectively. A TR rating adds torches and x6 means it can withstand the rated attack on any side for that time frame. UL provides this testing service, but you will see some people provide a letter grade instead which IIRC means it is built to a spec, but not explicitly tested. e.g. "B" rated, "C" rated, "F" rated.

This is way outside your price range, but these are suppose to be great security safes: http://www.brownsafe.com/ also http://www.deansafe.com/ortlx6jesa2h.html Check out the Brown safe webpage as they have a lot of useful information. There are other TL rated brands, but they are door only AFAIK.

If you care to read, this page says it all: http://www.brownsafe.com/categories/faq ... evels.html


As for fire protection, look for people who aren't using drywall. Drywall is the cheapest and least protective method that is commonly used in fire rated safes. For 1k you may not be able to find a safe which doesn't use it though. There obviously are better materials. e.g. Amsec uses a poured material on some models (a modified concrete basically) which is much better. Look at the testing, not all are created equal. If you have a fire suppression system (e.g. sprinklers) you may only need minimal or perhaps no fire protection at all.


Remember that just because it isn't a TRTL-60x6 and 2hr+ fire rated doesn't mean it isn't useful. What you need, have room for and can afford doesn't always mean the max protection. I provide the information for educational purposes so you can make an informed decision. Not many people need to call Brown Safe up and order one of those beasts. On the other hand I wouldn't want people thinking their $50k collectible shotgun is protected adequately in a $500 "safe."

A quick note about entry mechanisms. A good group II dial will last a long time. While electronic keypads are technically (if done properly) more secure, I have heard about problems with them. I have a cheap Sentry which I just use to store documents (no valuables) and I've already had to replace the keypad once...and now it has another problem. The electronic locks you are going to find on a $1k safe are going to be cheap. I highly recommend the mechanical variants unless you need quick access.

Also, keypads wear so you need to change up the combo to avoid giving it way with key wear. Dials have no such limitation.

Look for a Safe dealer instead of a store like Gander Mtn or Bass Pro... most local safe dealers do deliver for a fee. I know all the local safe dealers here in hampton roads will deliver for a fee. Best thing to do is find a buddy with a truck. I did mine myself with my wife's Ford Escape. Me and the dealer leaned it back until it rested against the edge, and then slid it in. Now when I got home, I was able to slide it out and tip it to the floor myself...... but if someone would have seen me and my wife trying to tip it upright, LOL!! That was a scene for America's Home videos.

I strongly recommend you consider paying for delivery. Even if you have a good dolly and a couple of buddies to help your problems start as soon as they leave 800 lbs of metal in your driveway. Consider measurement of the safe, doorways, and having to tilt it to make it over humps. A tilted safe is taller than a flat safe level on the dolly. Some may not make it though a door if it has to be tilted. Do the research thoroughly and know exaclty what you sign yourself up for if you decide to try and save $300 or you may end up with it sitting in your garage...

Help me out here fellas. This will be my first time purchasing one. I'll take all the tips, pointers and leads can get. Gander Mountain seems to have the best local selection and competitive pricing. Should I be looking somewhere else? I'm also not opposed to pickup a used one for the right price.[/quote]

First here is my background: 10 years as locksmith working on everything from a small safe to the biggest vault boor you have seen. I've posted a list on here before of what to look for. Is it safe? Anything can be gotten into by the right person. You want to stop the common bad guy. A safe cracker you won't stop unless you tie your safe to the alarm and have sound and heat and door sensors.
Things to look for:
1: thickness of walls!!!! main protection, you'd be surprized how fast you can gain access with a axe on thin walls
2: Bolts, 3 on non hinge side one top and one bottom, 2 fixed on hinge side
3: Hard plate behind lock, then you need diamond bit to drill
4: Mechanical lock, not electronic!!! What others have said is true
5: Relockers, in case of tampering they will fire and lock everything up, YOU WILL NEED A LOCKSMITH after this!
After this size, fire rating, int layout,, it's all up to you

OakRidgeStars wrote:Check out Liberty Safe and see if there is a dealer in your area.

http://www.libertysafe.com/

I have a Centurion 20 and couldn't be happier with it.

Actually I'm leaning that way now. Gander has the Centurion ($699) on sale for $550. If I go that route I need to decide soon. The sale ends 2/26. There seems to be little denying it's a great price. But is it "over priced" to begin with?

Again, this is my first attempt at selecting one.

That's a good price, and about $100 less than I paid, but mine was delivered and put in place by the dealer for free. With the economy being what it is these days, you can get a good deal from a local dealer.

http://shop.libertysafesofvirginia.com/ ... tegoryId=7

Be careful of what you buy. You are purchasing a safe for a specific reason. There are some things not to go cheap on. This was done with a Porter Cable saw w/ 7-1/4" wood cutting blade carbide tip within a 3 hour window.

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=104673

Folks it takes a little time to get into any decent safe. Thats why my first line of defense (other than locked doors/windows) is an alarm and local monitoring company. Once the alarm goes off, if they are stupid enough to enter after seeing the signs, they only have time to run through the house for a snatch and grab...

I also got the Centurion and bought it from the same place Jay linked to. I am happy with it.

zephyp wrote:Folks it takes a little time to get into any decent safe. Thats why my first line of defense (other than locked doors/windows) is an alarm and local monitoring company. Once the alarm goes off, if they are stupid enough to enter after seeing the signs, they only have time to run through the house for a snatch and grab...

....."point made" "point taken"

Kuda wrote:Be careful of what you buy. You are purchasing a safe for a specific reason. There are some things not to go cheap on. This was done with a Porter Cable saw w/ 7-1/4" wood cutting blade carbide tip within a 3 hour window.

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=104673

Unfortunately, there are no safes in the OP price range which will stop that kind of attack. Even entry level security safes large enough for firearms use and with no fire protection are starting around $2k. You can get an RSC gun safe with fire protection for $1.5-$2k give or take, but RSC won't stop power tools. Granted, a wood blade is probably not enough, but a metal cutting blade will be.

A lot of thieves use your own power tools against you. You can make things marginally more difficult by locking them up or at least keeping metal/carbide tools really secured. As Palliden and I have said, without an alarm a professional safe cracker will have enough time to break nearly anything. The problem IMHO is that to prevent an attack of opportunity using your own tools you need a decent safe which is well outside the budgets of most people ($2k+). There are a lot of things I would love to have, but I can't because I can't afford them. $10k for a Brown F class gun safe is just too much to pay for me...

zephyp wrote:Folks it takes a little time to get into any decent safe. Thats why my first line of defense (other than locked doors/windows) is an alarm and local monitoring company. Once the alarm goes off, if they are stupid enough to enter after seeing the signs, they only have time to run through the house for a snatch and grab...

I should point out that my SECOND line of defense when I'm not home. That would be my three rotwillers that roam freely. They are all in separate areas off the house. So in effect you might have to deal with each independent of the other. I know this is not the end all, after all I'm safe shopping. As many of you have pointed out. You can only hope to slow down or deter at best.

Dang, me and 3 buddies moved 2 big liberty safes that hold about $60k worth of guns from Smithfield to Norfolk in the back of a horse trailer for a $4 cup of coffee each. Guess we should have charged more.


I have a sentry safe that holds 1000 rounds of 45 and a few guns plus a few documents. I wish it were bigger but until I get a couple more pistols it'll do. It has an electronic lock and I'm very happy with it. http://www.sentrysafe.com/Products/49/S ... _Home_Safe