Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Each year an equipment survey is made at the IDPA National Championship Match. I thought some of you might find the survey's content interesting.

http://www.idpa.com/tj.asp?ID=290

That is really cool thanks for posting.

Thanks for posting this Charles. I've always been wanting to know, but never remember to look it up.

CRS syndrome suxs.

Interesting that Comp-Tac leads the holster category by a wide margin. They do make good stuff.

The last time I did any reloading was a few decades ago. I'm thinking about starting again and found the info on reloading gear and ammo components helpful.

Chasbo00 wrote:The last time I did any reloading was a few decades ago. I'm thinking about starting again and found the info on reloading gear and ammo components helpful.

Note that the lion's share of presses is by Dillon. This is for a couple of reasons. First, Dillon does make good gear (though horrendously expensive), and that gear is really built and intended for turning out the huge quantities of ammo that these competitors go through every month. Second, Dillon does a lot of sponsorship. On their Web site, they point out that as a way to get market share, they'd offer cash prizes to those winners who reloaded their ammo on Dillon gear (obviously this strategy works).

Unless you're competing at that level, or you just want to pay "BMW" prices, you probably don't "need" something on that level. But if you just want it, then, like that BMW, it's certainly fine stuff.

Thanks for the info CowboyT; I'll keep it in mind.

My possible reentry into reloading really hinges on whether I start shooting a .45 in competition. I've not yet decided if I'm going to do it.

The last time I reloaded a shot shell or cartridge was in 1978, so I'm a bit out of date experience wise. I used to shoot tournament skeet and reloaded several thousand shotgun shells yearly - 4 different gages. I used what was considered a BMW class shot shell reloader back then, a Ponsness Warren. All the metallic cartridge reloading I did was limited and done for performance reasons, not cost savings. I used an RCBS single stage press for both rifle and handgun.

CowboyT wrote:

Chasbo00 wrote:The last time I did any reloading was a few decades ago. I'm thinking about starting again and found the info on reloading gear and ammo components helpful.

Note that the lion's share of presses is by Dillon. This is for a couple of reasons. First, Dillon does make good gear (though horrendously expensive), and that gear is really built and intended for turning out the huge quantities of ammo that these competitors go through every month. Second, Dillon does a lot of sponsorship. On their Web site, they point out that as a way to get market share, they'd offer cash prizes to those winners who reloaded their ammo on Dillon gear (obviously this strategy works).

Unless you're competing at that level, or you just want to pay "BMW" prices, you probably don't "need" something on that level. But if you just want it, then, like that BMW, it's certainly fine stuff.

Dillon's customer service and warranty is top notch. They basically air mail you a package if something breaks, no cost to you. There are lots of people using Dillon's from decades ago...I've seen a few. They work just the same as the new ones because Dillon offers compatible "upgrades" for older presses.

gunderwood wrote: Dillon's customer service and warranty is top notch. They basically air mail you a package if something breaks, no cost to you. There are lots of people using Dillon's from decades ago...I've seen a few. They work just the same as the new ones because Dillon offers compatible "upgrades" for older presses.

According to this survey, 60 percent of the competitors are using hand-loads rather than factory ammo, and 87 percent of those reloading are using Dillon presses. These competitors are high-volume reloading mainly for performance reasons. They can tailor their ammunition to their guns just above the minimum power factor (bullet weight times velocity) required for a particular handgun division. For example, the minimum power factor in the Custom Defensive Pistol Division is 165,000. If you are shooting a .45 ACP and using a 230 grain bullet, you must have a velocity of at least 718 fps. If shooting a 200 grain bullet, the minimum velocity would be 825 feet per second. Chronographs are used at all major matches to actually measure the competitors' ammo power factor.

Chasbo00 wrote:

gunderwood wrote: Dillon's customer service and warranty is top notch. They basically air mail you a package if something breaks, no cost to you. There are lots of people using Dillon's from decades ago...I've seen a few. They work just the same as the new ones because Dillon offers compatible "upgrades" for older presses.

According to this survey, 60 percent of the competitors are using hand-loads rather than factory ammo, and 87 percent of those reloading are using Dillon presses. These competitors are high-volume reloading mainly for performance reasons. They can tailor their ammunition to their guns just above the minimum power factor (bullet weight times velocity) required for a particular handgun division. For example, the minimum power factor in the Custom Defensive Pistol Division is 165,000. If you are shooting a .45 ACP and using a 230 grain bullet, you must have a velocity of at least 718 fps. If shooting a 200 grain bullet, the minimum velocity would be 825 feet per second. Chronographs are used at all major matches to actually measure the competitors' ammo power factor.

I'm confused. What does tuning their load have to do with my reply as to why I like Dillon (what makes them different)? I didn't know you can't tune a load on other presses.

Any press can do that and any progressive press is just as fast (give or take). When you factor in all of the costs of competition, the couple hundred that a Dillon costs over a Lee is pretty insignificant. Given the high volume and other costs I suspect that most shooters don't care too much about the extra cost of the Dillon and just want the "best."

gunderwood wrote: I'm confused. What does tuning their load have to do with my reply as to why I like Dillon (what makes them different)? I didn't know you can't tune a load on other presses.

Any press can do that and any progressive press is just as fast (give or take). When you factor in all of the costs of competition, the couple hundred that a Dillon costs over a Lee is pretty insignificant. Given the high volume and other costs I suspect that most shooters don't care too much about the extra cost of the Dillon and just want the "best."

I think you answered you own question just fine in your second paragraph.

Chasbo00 wrote:

gunderwood wrote: I'm confused. What does tuning their load have to do with my reply as to why I like Dillon (what makes them different)? I didn't know you can't tune a load on other presses.

Any press can do that and any progressive press is just as fast (give or take). When you factor in all of the costs of competition, the couple hundred that a Dillon costs over a Lee is pretty insignificant. Given the high volume and other costs I suspect that most shooters don't care too much about the extra cost of the Dillon and just want the "best."

I think you answered you own question just fine in your second paragraph.

I was being sarcastic, but I still am curious what your reply had to do with Dillon's quality or customer service as compared to other presses?

Hand tuning a load to met power factor levels is not new and I didn't ask about. I replied to CowboyTs comments about Dillon versus other presses. What was interesting is that most of the people reloading are using Dillon, not that hand loaders tune loads for various reasons to include giving them an edge over those shooting factory ammo. Your original reply answers why so many people are reloading (kind of surprised it is only 60% given the obvious advantage), not why so many are using Dillon or what makes Dillon a good brand, etc.

Tea in China?

gunderwood wrote: I was being sarcastic, but I still am curious what your reply had to do with Dillon's quality or customer service as compared to other presses?

Hand tuning a load to met power factor levels is not new and I didn't ask about. I replied to CowboyTs comments about Dillon versus other presses. What was interesting is that most of the people reloading are using Dillon, not that hand loaders tune loads for various reasons to include giving them an edge over those shooting factory ammo. Your original reply answers why so many people are reloading (kind of surprised it is only 60% given the obvious advantage), not why so many are using Dillon or what makes Dillon a good brand, etc.

Tea in China?

I took no issue with your post. But, I'll try to expand a bit on mine.

CowboyT says targeted marketing and incentives for competition shooters are factors in Dillon's popularity here. You seem to think their service is pretty good. The survey shows that 87 percent of the reloading competitors are using Dillon reloading presses. That makes Dillon more than just popular. My guess as to why 87 percent are using Dillon equipment is that it's mainly related to the quality and reliability of reloads coupled with a high-volume output. Action pistol competitors don't get any alibis for a gun or ammo malfunction. They have to eat the time it takes to deal with the malfunction and that directly affects their score.

It was a surprise to me, and I suspect most others too, to learn that more than half of the competitors were using reloads rather than factory ammo in this particular match for the national championship. Using reloads for practice and club-level matches would be expected; but, not the national match itself, unless there was some performance related reason. My comments on the power factor were intended to explain why such a high percentage of competitors would be using reloads in this particular national championship match, especially when an ammo related malfunction would adversely affect their score.

10-4.

LFS wrote:Interesting that Comp-Tac leads the holster category by a wide margin. They do make good stuff.

I was glad to see that too.
I have one of their paddle holsters and love it.