Pistol Xfer from New York to Virginia

[user22031]

My father passed away recently and owned several pistols. My mother (80 yrs old) wants them out of the house, but is concerned about transferring them to others. Unfortunately, NY gives the estate only 15 days to dispose of the weapons after the death of a permit holder so a speedy response to her questions is requested. A relative in Virginia has expressed interest in the weapons and holds a VA carry permit.

1. How does she transport the weapons to a FFL if she isn't a permit holder?
2. Does she pay the shipping cost and the transfer fee to the NY FFL or does the recipient pay the shipping and xfer fee to the VA FFL or both?
3. How is insurance on the shipment arranged and which party is responsible?
4. Does the FFL issue a bill of sale or is that between the recipient and my mother? Is it completed before or after the shipment?
5. Does the recipient have to undergo a background check before picking up the weapons? Is there a cost?
6. Do the FFLs take possession of the weapons or are they just a transfer agent?
7. What documents are needed at the forwarding end and at the receiving end?
8. We would appreciate any other details or comments from a VA FFL about this type of transfer. Thank you.

[davasmith]

Hello and good morning. I'm sorry for your recent loss.
I will try to answer some of your questions:
1. Your mom can just have a relative bring the firearms to her local ffl.
2. Your mom should not pay for the shipping of the firearms to anyone unless she wants to. The receiver should always pay shipping and the charges for the ffl transfer. Usually this is done by the seller charging between 30.00 and 40.00 for shipping and it includes the ffl charge for transferring the firearm.
3. The sender will include insurance on the shipment, however usually the buyer will pay that fee as well. The best way to get this done is to find the price for insurance, ffl transfer, packaging materials and postage. Once you find this info out you can easily add the costs up and find a proper price.
4. The ffl will file with the state police, the transfer of the firearms and the buyer will have to do paperwork at his/her local ffl. The fee associated with this is usually 2.00 and whatever the local ffl charges for transfer. Your mom should not pay anything, not shipping, not ffl, not packaging, and not postage.
5. Background check is covered in #4 in the paperwork to state police.
6. The local ffl will take possession of the firearms until paperwork clears the state police. Depending on the name, and background this can take a couple of minutes to several hours. My experience is it takes on average 15 minutes for handguns and almost immediately for long guns.
7. No documents other than the receiver's local ffl address and amount of purchase is necessary. This is where the firearms will be delivered.
8. Basically, here is what your mom needs to do.
a. Contact local law enforcement, and see what NY policy for gun transfer is.
b. Follow local policy and get the firearms to ffl in NY for shipment to ffl in Va.
c. Have the intended person in Va. pick a local ffl to do the transfer and have the firearms sent to this ffl dealer.
d. No money should leave your mom's hand unless she agrees to it. All costs associated with the transfer should be paid by the receiver.
e. Make sure your mom receives all funds prior to shipment of firearms. I hope this helps you and your mom.

[gunderwood]

Sorry for you loss.

It's going to be a small hassle either way. The NY FFL is going to want paid upfront for the paperwork and shipping costs. They may be willing to take possession and hold them until the buyers funds arrive for that purpose, but don't expect them to do much else without funds. If you trust the relative it may be slightly easier to just front the NY FFL/shipping costs. The FFLs will be able to walk her through the process, but I'd start working with a local NY FFL ASAP.

[Oakes]

Whatcha got? I'm a NY resident and have a pistol permit, Bill

[Diomed]

Was there a will? Was there a specified recipient for the pistols? If not, what does New York intestate succession law say about who gets personal property?

If the relative mentioned is designated as the heir, they can receive the firearms directly interstate. NY may require that a FFL in-state be used to send them out, maybe not, you'd have to check.

Of course, if there's no mention of the guns in the will, or no will, and the relative in question isn't entitled to the estate somehow, then what the others have said is the way to go. Getting in touch with a local dealer who can help you through the process is probably the best thing you can do.

[user22031]

Thank you for the kind responses, especially davasmith's. We have a home for the weapons in Virginia, she is just concerned about the logistics of getting them there legally and who does what and when in a private sale through FFLs.

She is particularly concerned about transporting the weapons to the sending FFL, since neither she nor any living relative has a NY permit. Seems that there's a real catch 22 in that she has to dispose of the weapons, but can't legally act to do so.

[gunderwood]

Was there a will? Was there a specified recipient for the pistols? If not, what does New York intestate succession law say about who gets personal property?

If the relative mentioned is designated as the heir, they can receive the firearms directly interstate. NY may require that a FFL in-state be used to send them out, maybe not, you'd have to check.

Of course, if there's no mention of the guns in the will, or no will, and the relative in question isn't entitled to the estate somehow, then what the others have said is the way to go. Getting in touch with a local dealer who can help you through the process is probably the best thing you can do.

Good points. He used the words "expressed interest" so I was assuming they were not willed to the relative in question. Good to check the assumptions though.

[wally626]

Looking at the New York state laws summaries that are on the web there are no provisions for carrying an pistol to the store etc. for sale. Since anyone has to have a license to have a pistol even in the home. Call a local gun store and see if there are any exceptions during the 14-day window for transport. As I read the law summaries, even another person with a permit can not take them as they have to be listed on their permit. A real Catch-22. Of course people without permits have to get rid of pistols all the time, so somebody has figured out a legal way to do it.

[gunderwood]

Of course people without permits have to get rid of pistols all the time, so somebody has figured out a legal way to do it.

Or they just transport them illegally and everyone looks the other way. The odds of getting caught during a single transport to the FFL are marginal.

[kanata67]

Put them in a box well packed and UNLOADED, arrange for UPS "or other 3rd parts shipping, no USPS" pick-up, ship them. Let the VA recipient register them when received if required.

Alternately make the person receiving them drive to NY and pick them up. I'd drive that far for free guns . If they are not reported stolen there is no issue in registering them most else-wares as a gift/inheritance and less cost in transfers.

[kanata67]

Of course people without permits have to get rid of pistols all the time, so somebody has figured out a legal way to do it.

Or they just transport them illegally and everyone looks the other way. The odds of getting caught during a single transport to the FFL are marginal.

Hey gun, maybe you know. In FL I have been told by everyone INCLUDING dealers and police that not only is registering not required but a bad idea. As an ex NY resident this confused me as how else does somebody insure their collection in case of fire, hurricane,theft,etc. I'm quite serious when I say I walked into the local police station with an old iverjohnson32 and a rhom22 from wwII that my neighbor lady gave me trying to register them and they told me to go away and stop bothering them. Is this normal or is FL a f@cked up state? I know when buying a pistol the dealers do a background check and record the transfer but nothing else.
Granted, owning a pistol(s) is entirely different than carrying one which requires a CCP. Do you need a permit for simply owning a pistol in V A? I didn't think you needed one to own a pistol in NY unless you were in the city or carrying. Upstate NYers have given me firearms and mentioned nothing about a transfer being required, and as upstanding officers you would think they would.

[grumpyMSG]

You don't need a permit to own a pistol in Va, you don't need to register pistols, rifles or shotguns. For insurance purposes you can take a photo or several photos of the items you are insuring, record the manufacturer and the serial numbers of the items being insured (doesn't matter whether it is a big screen TV or shotgun). You also need to discuss the specifics with the insurance company, some may require an item by item listing for the insurance, some may just require an estimated value. Either way having the photos and S.N.s recorded helps with claims and reporting their theft to the Police if necessary.

[Diomed]

Alternately make the person receiving them drive to NY and pick them up.

If they're not the heir at law, then that's a federal felony. Which is not to say it doesn't happen regularly, but ...

Hey gun, maybe you know. In FL I have been told by everyone INCLUDING dealers and police that not only is registering not required but a bad idea. As an ex NY resident this confused me as how else does somebody insure their collection in case of fire, hurricane,theft,etc. I'm quite serious when I say I walked into the local police station with an old iverjohnson32 and a rhom22 from wwII that my neighbor lady gave me trying to register them and they told me to go away and stop bothering them. Is this normal or is FL a f@cked up state? I know when buying a pistol the dealers do a background check and record the transfer but nothing else.
Granted, owning a pistol(s) is entirely different than carrying one which requires a CCP. Do you need a permit for simply owning a pistol in V A? I didn't think you needed one to own a pistol in NY unless you were in the city or carrying. Upstate NYers have given me firearms and mentioned nothing about a transfer being required, and as upstanding officers you would think they would.

Firearms registration is actually very unusual in the US. Only a few states - New York, New Jersey, and three or four others - have firearm registration of major classes of firearms, like all firearms or all handguns. (Virginia registers machineguns, but that's not a normal situation unfortunately.) The federal government only maintains a registry of certain types of firearms, none of which are common (since they're restricted).

Same with ownership permits. Only a few states - again NY, NJ, IL, a few others - require permits/licenses/FOIDs to simply possess firearms.

In much the same way Texans assume the rest of the world is like Texas, it is often a shock to New Yorkers to realize that their state is the exception and not the rule.

If you want to insure your collection, all you have to do is buy an insurance policy. Some require providing a list of firearms to be insured, some do not. I've never heard of governmental registration also conferring insurance coverage.

[zephyp]

Is this normal or is FL a f@cked up state?

Most of us consider the few states that do require gun registration to be worse...even commie like.

[gunderwood]

Is this normal or is FL a f@cked up state?

Most of us consider the few states that do require gun registration to be worse...even commie like.

Yes, what exactly does registration do?

A registered gun can be used in a crime by the registrant or anyone else who legally or illegally obtains it. Unless you are on a suicide mission, you don't leave the gun at the scene or elsewhere...or you just scratch them off. Remember, if you are going to commit murder removing serial numbers isn't an issue for you.

All registration does it let the government know who has what, nothing more. Not many good or valid reasons for that either.

[user]

This is not as complicated as it sounds. If no executor has been appointed or there's no will, then there's already a new owner under the intestate succession laws of NY - probably the surviving spouse. Have the executor of the estate or new owner transfer OWNERSHIP of the firearms to the legatee (person who receives personal property under a will or intestate succession) in NY IN THE NAME OF THE ESTATE - a very simple, one page statement in normal English will do, signed and dated by the person who's transferring ownership in the name of the estate of the deceased person. A transfer of ownership alone, i.e., without a transfer of possession, is not a "transfer" requiring an FFL, and one who takes by inheritance is not subject to that kind of bureaucratic nonsense. The new owner by inheritance should not attempt to carry the guns back himself - that would almost certainly be a violation of laws of NY, NJ, DE, and MD (because of possession of the guns in the car in those states - not anything to do with transfer of ownership).

Then, have someone ship the guns to the (new) true owner via UPS - shipper and recipient named as the same person; i.e., the true owner after inheritance is shipping the guns to himself. He can do this through an agent (the person filling out the form at the UPS office) without having to actually go to NY - perfectly legal and honest to have an agent do something for you in a place where you're not. BUT the agent should be the person with lawful possession of the registered guns, or some other person lawfully (in NY) entitled to be in possession thereof (a friendly cop, perhaps?). It is necessary to inform UPS that the box contains guns, and they don't take guns for shipment except at their main hub points. Be sure to insure the guns.

Make sure they're unloaded and without ammunition. Pack 'em really well in one big box. The new, true owner can receive them in Virginia with no problem. Someone should report to NY that they've been transferred out of state as the result of inheritance and are no longer to be considered "registered" in NY. NY may say, "Oh, but you have to jump through all sorts of hoops." Nonsense - the guns are no longer subject to NY law.