Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

WAVY 10 is running a story tomorrow night about conceal permits and getting the requisite "training" online.

Of course they make it sound like permit carry is the ONLY way to carry, so it implies that anyone who takes an online course is not qualified - nor should they be able to carry.

I am interested to see which way they run with it, but I can't imagine it is going to be "bias free".

I caught a little bit of the ad this AM and from that it sounded biased already,, Like a law was being broken or something for having never fired a round and getting CHP in VA

Did Dan Casey move to TV now?. This piece of "journalism" is headed straight to the BFD file where it belongs.

Missed it. Howd it end up?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I hate being right all the time.

Yeah man ...they kept pushing the on line training part of and even had a Portsmouth Sherrif back up their BS with a scary story of woe and disaster coming,,, Only spot of signifacance was the mention (very breifly) of the need to pass a background check. Then it went right back to harping on the training again to keep the shock portion of this hit peice story in the forefront . Without it they had no story to tell at all///

They also mentioned briefly that they spoke to a representative from the State Police that did not think that the on-line course met the requirements for a concealed carry permit. I sent them an e-mail that gave them the VA SP website with all the requirements, and suggested that there next story should be why the SP dont know the CHP requirements and laws.

Personally, I think that range time should be required to gain a CHP. I think a compitent instructor should be required to sign off on a slip of recognizable skill level. Not everyone knows about finger off the trigger until sight is acheived or how to grasp a firearm so the recoil doesn't cause the tip to rifle up and end up in double tap off target. I believe in a persons right to bear, carry and shoot firearms however to get a drivers license you must first show compitence behind the wheel. The same should apply to CHP's IMHO.

I think that everyone who wants to post on internet forums should be required to write a five page essay showing that they have mastered the predominant language of that board.

How would that sound? How about for each and every right you wish to exercise you must take a government-mandated course to show "compitence" [sic]. You know, to make sure you have "acheived" [sic] a minimum degree of proficiency.

Right? I mean, it's only fair.

davasmith wrote:Personally, I think that range time should be required to gain a CHP. I think a compitent instructor should be required to sign off on a slip of recognizable skill level. Not everyone knows about finger off the trigger until sight is acheived or how to grasp a firearm so the recoil doesn't cause the tip to rifle up and end up in double tap off target. I believe in a persons right to bear, carry and shoot firearms however to get a drivers license you must first show compitence behind the wheel. The same should apply to CHP's IMHO.

Using that logic, mere ownership of a firearm would require range instruction.

LOL wylde007. I was going to go a similar route, but decided to go with a little more subdued response.

wylde007 wrote:I think that everyone who wants to post on internet forums should be required to write a five page essay showing that they have mastered the predominant language of that board.

How would that sound? How about for each and every right you wish to exercise you must take a government-mandated course to show "compitence" [sic]. You know, to make sure you have "acheived" [sic] a minimum degree of proficiency.

Right? I mean, it's only fair.

And hey "the pen is mightier than the sword"! People can be on their best behavior to get a safety slip signed and then go do something supremely stupid the moment after. The bottom line is your can't teach people common sense. That is all gun safety is common sense.

My bad mister language guard dog. "competence", not compitence, and "achieved" not acheived. I guess my fingers did a little walking of their own. It is "walking" not wakling, right?
Gents, relax this is only a forum. Accidental key reversal will happen. I view most points here on vagunforum with the majority, but this is one instance I believe I'll take my side again.
You may now return to bashing me, my shoulders are wide and they can bear it!

Key "reversal" is fine... if you want to make excuses. Except that replacing an "e" with an "i" is not reversal.

I was pointing out the root fallacy of your argument by using your exact words to make my point, and I did not even really pick apart the rest of your post which was wrought with errors.

According to the libs and leftists your words could be misconstrued of their meaning if used in the improper context. Someone's feelings could get hurt.

Are you willing to accept the consequences of your actions if your poor grammar and spelling were to hurt someone's feelings or offend them? Well? Would you?

You know, before I got my license I had a learners permit, but that did not grant me the privilege of driving. My father and mother did that. Then I took driver education in school. Two whole days I was in a class which was supposed to be six weeks, two days a week. The instructor said, basically "You don't need to be here" and excused me with an "A". I have never once taken a behind-the-wheel test to verify my "proficiency.

Some time ago my license lapsed and I forgot to renew it. The strangest thing happened. I got in my truck to drive to work and wouldn't you know it! It started right up and I drove to work. Drove for almost a whole month before I got around to renewing my license.

Permits do not make people better shots, more aware of their surroundings or more able to defend themselves. They are government-issued permission slips which have absolutely no meaning until and unless you are caught without one at the wrong time.

And then NOT having one can be used as an extra excuse to vilify you and extort more fees (fines) from you because you did not cotton to the supreme authority of government.

Do I think everyone who owns a gun should be proficient or, at the very least, knowledgeable of how to handle it safely? Absolutely.

Do I believe for even a moment that the MODE OF CARRY has any bearing on whether that is important? No. Absolutely not. I also absolutely reject the idea that government intrusion into the regulation of RIGHTS is in anyway beneficial to those who would exercise them.

davasmith wrote:Personally, I think that range time should be required to gain a CHP. I think a compitent instructor should be required to sign off on a slip of recognizable skill level. Not everyone knows about finger off the trigger until sight is acheived or how to grasp a firearm so the recoil doesn't cause the tip to rifle up and end up in double tap off target. I believe in a persons right to bear, carry and shoot firearms however to get a drivers license you must first show compitence behind the wheel. The same should apply to CHP's IMHO.

I would LOVE if every one of my students paid me $40 per hour to judge their firearm proficiency.

The problem comes in, in that at what point in time do you declare someone proficient? Some instructor watching 20 people shoot 10 rounds at a 7 yard target? That could be just luck.

Meet me at the range once a week for the next 2 years, and I'll declare you proficient. Anything short of that isn't proficiency.

+1 for wylde007 @ Fri, 04 Feb 2011 16:27:37

And an extra 10 for the use of 'wrought' and 'cotton'

ProShooter wrote:Meet me at the range once a week for the next 2 years, and I'll declare you proficient. Anything short of that isn't proficiency.

Practice does not make perfect. Practice makes permanent.

Perfect practice makes perfect.

Someone could shoot for twenty years and never become "proficient". Maybe they have poor shooting form or bad eyesight.

DOES THAT PRECLUDE THEIR RIGHT TO SELF-DEFENSE?

No. Absolutely not.

By your standards (no offense, James, and I believe I catch your meaning) nobody on this forum, possibly yourself included (though I sense a little prejudice) would EVER be "proficient".

Navy SeaLS and Marine Corps snipers, notwithstanding.

Meet me at the range once a week for the next 2 years, and I'll declare you proficient. Anything short of that isn't proficiency.

and don't forget the at least annual retesting. You may be proficient at one time but unless you keep practicing your proficiency declines.

wait wait.....I've just created a whole new department of the government. Hundreds of thousands of jobs and oh yeah a few billion in tax payer dollars will need to support the Federal Arms Training Agency or FAT A.

Jakeiscrazy wrote:And hey "the pen is mightier than the sword"!

"Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons."

wylde007 wrote:I think that everyone who wants to post on internet forums should be required to write a five page essay showing that they have mastered the predominant language of that board.

How would that sound? How about for each and every right you wish to exercise you must take a government-mandated course to show "compitence" [sic]. You know, to make sure you have "acheived" [sic] a minimum degree of proficiency.

Right? I mean, it's only fair.

Yee haaa....

So true Travis. We all harp about the 2nd and say little things like "what part of shall not be infringed dont you understand" and then push for gun control...

Diomed wrote:

Jakeiscrazy wrote:And hey "the pen is mightier than the sword"!

"Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons."