National Park Carry Bill

[Moccasin]

Based on the article available HERE the ammendment to allow National Park Carry is going forward. As near as I can tell the bill and the ammendment were seperated for the votes in each house, maybe to send a message to Obama?

As an added bonus, MSNBC is taking a poll at that site. VOTE!

[alby]

May 20, 2009
Congressional Memo
Advocates of Gun Rights Are Poised for a Victory
By CARL HULSE

WASHINGTON — Advocates of gun rights are poised to win a Congressional victory that eluded them under a Republican president.

To the frustration and discouragement of many Democrats, House and Senate lawmakers and aides say it now appears likely that President Obama will this week sign into law a provision allowing visitors to national parks and refuges to carry loaded and concealed weapons.

The White House is lukewarm at best on the gun provision, which was added to a popular measure imposing new rules on credit card companies. But the Democrats who now control both Congress and the White House appear ready to allow it to survive rather than derail a consumer-friendly credit card measure that Mr. Obama is eager to sign as Congress heads off for a Memorial Day recess.

“Timing is everything in politics,” said Senator Tom Coburn, Republican of Oklahoma and the champion of the gun proposal.

A majority of Democrats in the House and Senate still typically come down on the side of gun control. But the fact that they have been outmaneuvered by Republicans on gun issues is rooted in the fact that recently swollen Democratic ranks include senators and House members who represent Western states and more rural areas where gun ownership is popular and deemed sacrosanct.

When those Democrats team up with Republicans, they constitute a clear majority in the House and Senate.

“It is a shame,” said Senator Barbara Boxer, Democrat of California. “But you have to come to a realization around here that at this point in time, the N.R.A. gets the votes,” she said referring to the National Rifle Association.

“Either you are going to bring down the whole Senate and never do anything or you or going to swallow hard and say, ‘I will just vote my conscience on those amendments and speak out until people get a hold of their senses,’ ” Mrs. Boxer said.

The ideological split should be on vivid display as early as Wednesday if House leaders follow through on their plan to have an unusual two-part vote on the credit card/gun bill.

Under the current plan, the House would vote separately on the gun provision and the credit card elements of the bill, allowing lawmakers who favor the credit card provision but not the gun measure to split their votes and allow those who want both to have it all. The two aspects of the bill would be joined again before the legislation was sent to the White House.

The Senate approved the credit card bill on Tuesday on an overwhelming vote of 90 to 5, showing that Democrats who oppose the gun provision were not going to let it interfere with their backing of the broader legislation.

Mr. Coburn and his allies in both parties say the provision is less about guns than it is states’ rights. Under the proposal, people who are otherwise authorized under state law to have firearms would be entitled to have them in national parks and wildlife refuges unless a state law prohibited it. Currently, firearms must be unloaded and secured on those national lands, creating what backers of the bill say is a situation where someone passing through a park with a firearm can be charged with a violation.

“I don’t like guns necessarily,” Mr. Coburn said. “What I want is those constitutional rights to be protected.”

Mr. Coburn has been trying for the past two years to get the measure through Congress. The Bush administration, in its final months, had pushed through a rule change that would have allowed the guns, but in March a federal judge blocked the change. The Obama administration chose not to appeal the decision while a review of potential impacts was made.

Gun control and conservation groups have urged the administration to insist on a credit card bill without the gun proposal. They have also joined top House Democrats in lamenting the inability of Senate Democrats to prevent Republicans from adding such politically charged proposals to unrelated legislation. A gun measure has also tied up a bill granting the District of Columbia full voting representation in the House, and Republicans are readying other gun rights initiatives for future consideration.

“I wish there could be more courage and leadership from our friends on the Hill,” said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, saying he believed that lawmakers were overestimating the gun lobby’s political might.

For their part, backers of the gun provision were relishing their looming victory.

“After using every legislative trick in the book to prevent a vote on gun rights, Democrat leaders are finally crying uncle and clearing the way for Congress to reinstate the Bush policy,” said Representative Doc Hastings of Washington, senior Republican on the House Natural Resources Committee.

[zephyp]

Thanks for posting this! They removed this as an amendment from HR 627 (credit card resolution) on 12 May and I thought it was dead.

Whoooohooooo!!!!

[Moccasin]

Zephy, I think it was removed to send a message to the president. Being that these are being voted on seperately I'm thinking that the message is something like "congress (the people) want BOTH to pass"

Assuming that is what they are planning it makes sense that the bill and amendment were seperated last week.

I'll merge your thread and this one later today if it hasn't already been done. You thread carried the first news of it.

[zephyp]

Thanks, Mocassin. It is nice to see on the msnbc poll that we "win" 2:1. This legislation is an excellent example of why we must be vigilant. Under normal circumstances charged issues like gun control legislation get a lot of attention. This one was initially somewhat hidden from view since it was introduced as an amendment to a contentious issue. Countless laws are passed like this (earmarks) and hard to discover unless you or someone else digs and sounds the alert.

Thanks again for sounding off.

[Moccasin]

Did you read any of the comments attached to that poll? I loved the one that went something like "make it legal to carry guns in the park then the bad guys will be able to carry guns there too" Gimme a break.

When I last looked it was 70% that said yes (63%) or "maybe" (7%) guns should be allowed, 29% said no.

[zephyp]

I read many and posted a couple. Its hard to imagine that educated Americans would allow any of the amendments in the Bill of Rights to be infringed upon. I wonder how many of the anti-gun crowd would howl if the 1st amendment was openly assaulted? IMO the 2nd amendment was strategically placed to protect the 1st. If we lose the 2nd, the 1st and others can and will easily follow.

[VBshooter]

The sad thing about a lot of these anti gun idiots is they think the Bill of rights and the Constitution appies to them only,. You aren;t included in their perfect little utopia,,Look at Pelosi actually having the nerve to say on national TV "We want them registered" And her other little practicing witch threatening every legal gun owner in America with remarks like "I'll pick the time and place" Eric Holder actually wrote that the 2nd amendment does not guarentee rights to defend an individual to the Supreme court,, And Obamanation continues to surround himself with some of the most gun hating zealots in America,,,THese are DANGEROUS people that should not be in office .TO even speak of changing the Constitution is treason in my eyes...If this National Park thing passes that will be good but as said We will have to be ever more aware of these gun grabbers with their personal agendas,.Its gonna be a long 4 years!!!

[zephyp]

VBShooter - I agree. If the anti-gun politicians in Congress are smart they will watch and heed the polls. I'm guessing, hoping, and praying that we will see a major upset in the mid-term elections. I'm sick and tired of our elected officials bringing their personal agenda to Washington. They need to wise up and represent the citizen's agenda.

[Fordmechanic]

What PISSES me off is Barbara boxers comment on how the NRA once again trumped their plans. IT WASNT THE NRA, IT WAS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TELLING THEIR REPRESENTATIVES TO CEASE AND DESIST THEIR PLANS TO TAKE AWAY AN ESSENTIAL FREEDOM. These fricking Dumocrats will never learn. I'll take Utopia, and my guns too (just in case)

[Fordmechanic]

They need to wise up and represent the citizen's agenda.

[allingeneral]

I couldn't agree more Fordmechanic. It seems that politicians make all the promises that they need to make at election time, then go and do whatever they feel like doing after they're in office because there isn;t any accountability to the general public for how they vote or what they do. It's up to us, the citizenry, to hold them accountable and ensure that they aren't re-elected if they don't fulfill OUR requirements.

[Moccasin]

The problem is, as with many other things, we the people are too lazy or don't want to be othered with any kind of accountability or responsibility. It's easier to vote a "representative" into office that we think has views similar to our own than it is to vote someone in that we know will represent our interests and then let them know how to vote. You have to take an active part doing that. Congress, both houses, has become nothing more than an assembly of people who make laws that THEY feel is in OUR best interest. That is the wrong way to be going about things, WE should be telling THEM how to vote in our best interest. We've put our country on auto-pilot and we're hoping our altitude is high enough to avoid mountains.

[Fordmechanic]

^^^^^^^ wow....The post above is exactly how I think things are going. Nice job moccasin!

[Moccasin]

Looks like the House has approved the NP carry ammendment. The full article is here. Most of it talks about the credit card bill itself, the NP carry part says-

"Included in the bill is an unrelated measure by Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., that would allow people to bring loaded guns into national parks and wildlife refuges.

The House approved that provision separately on Wednesday by a 279-147 vote."

Additional news article here. This one is more specific to the NP carry ammendment.