Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Flexible on make/model, looking for any reliable home defender. Would rather buy used from one of you than a pawn shop. Willing to pay about the going used blue book rates depending on maker/condition/history. Intrigued by the Saigas.

Must be within an hours drive of Roanoke or meet me somewhere along that range. Thanks!

Before you buy an 18" pistol-gripped 10 ga shotgun, you'd better fire one somewhere.

The only 12-ga that short I ever fired was an old Strevens single-shot sawed-off that a feller GAVE me. As a strapping young man in excellent shape, I could not fire it from the shoulder and keep it off my chin. Rang my bell ever time. You could fire it from the hip and stay healthy, if the breech latch didn't split the web between your thumb and forefinger. Extrapolating the significant diffierence in recoil energy between a Ruger Red Label 12 ga and a BPS 10-guage to that sufferin 'b*tch of a sawed-off 12 ga that kept bustin' my jaw, I'd about have to say I wouldn't take an 18-inch pistol grip 10 ga if somebody gave me one. Also, I'm not sure if anybody makes one.

But then I'm getting old and fragile. Maybe it's just me.

I would not recommend a 10ga of any kind for HD. The most common LE loading is a 12ga with 00 Tactical Buck or 12ga with managed recoil HP slugs. Once you reach the power of a 12ga the concern becomes over-penetration and wasting the power of that shell past the target. Making the shotgun more powerful doesn't really help IMHO. We like splitting hairs with cartridges and bullets, but practically it isn't need once you get to a 12ga and tactical LE loadings.

There is a difference between looking for a slightly better load and being concerned that a load is inadequate. E.g. I prefer the Federal Low-Recoil HP slugs, but if I didn't have those I would load up their 9 pellet 00 buck flight control and not worry about it. Heck, I'd load up a most brands tactical 00 buck loads and not worry about it. I have a preference for a load, but I don't worry about Winchester's or Remington's being inadequate.

I think you are better served with faster follow-up shots than a more powerful shotgun. Go 12ga.

Pistol grips are not needed for HD either. They are a personal preference just like vertical grips on an AR15. It changes your technique a bit, but if you are well practiced either solution works just fine. I don't care for pistol grip shotgun, but lots of others do. Choose it only if it works better for you. If it doesn't, there is nothing wrong or slower with a traditional stock.

The Saiga's are neat, but I still prefer a good pump. Simple.

Kreutz

You would be surprised at how few models of 10ga shotguns have been produced throughout the years. They just never made it, and probably never will, to a tacticool pistol grip setup. Besides my understanding is that they are all but obsolete because the 12ga 3 1/2 mag can virtually replicate the firepower of a 10ga.

I have a Saiga and I believe that they are a must for anyone who appreciates sheer firepower. The firearm has it's own community at www.saiga-12.com, much like ar15.com. There are many manufacturers that make accessories for these. They are cheap. I got mine at the Dulles Expo Gun show for around $440. That was some time ago though. Stick mags can come anywhere from the stock 5 rounder to the long 12 rounder. There is a 20 round drum available from mdarms.com for $80.

However the Saiga will not shoot 3 1/2 mags. It will only shoot 2 3/4 and 3" mag in a stick magazine. In the drum it is 2 3/4 only.

Saiga like hot ammo. They have problems cycling WalMart Special cheap stuff. You probably could get it to work if you tinkered with the gas plug.