Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

The Question is “How do we Recover and return back to a whole country again?”

This is one of those big thinking type of scenarios and I am sure from reading the SHTF threads there are a lot of folks that have some good thoughts about this.

Here is the scenario

Markets Crash on speculation that the U.S. Government will default.

Banking industry has now been nationalized

All Industrial and manufacturing Markets are nationalized

All Utilities Gas, water, Electric, and Telecommunications (includes Internet Service Providers and Satellites have been nationalized and brought under Government control.

What used to be the Middle Class is no more as the entire 401K and investments funds have been taken over by the Government to pay debts.

All off-shore oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico are wiped out by a natural disaster causing a mass gas and oil shortage

Right is blaming Left

Left is blaming Right

Right and Left both Blaming the TEA Party

Ethnic Unrest and Upheaval

Mass Propaganda and miss-information from both the Government and the Underground

Government crack down on Free Speech and all citizens rights

Government troops deployed

Armed bands of citizenry grouping together for safety

Anarchy and Chaos is running amok and the National Government is now completely disbanded and government/leadership is in the local level.


My guess is that the country that would be rebuilt would look very different then what we have today or even 10 – 20 years ago.

I think that this nation would recover, but I really do not think we would have the same rights and privileges that we currently have.

Would the Constitution still be the glue that keeps our country together or would only pieces of it remain?
This is one of the exercises that I had to look at in my Cyber Warfare class and thought that it would make for good discussions here.

The first step begins next Tuesday at the voting booth. This country will never survive without you and your vote.

Remember in November.

I think we've been flirting w/ civil war for quite some time...the bottom line the coast's of this nation share almost nothing in common w/ the states in the center or alaska .....it's not a north south difference ... and it's more than just racial, it's social, it's moral there are so many different divides...I don't have answer myself , I just say my prayers and hope, and vote... I think the future of this country looks grim...which being a father saddens me deeply

How do we recover and return back to a whole country again?

The answer is simple, but it requires some mental self-discipline, which is too much for some folks. It is this:

We stop voting "party ticket" and start voting in actual Constitutionalists.

Oh, and parents actually raising their children might help out, too....

CowboyT wrote:How do we recover and return back to a whole country again?

The answer is simple, but it requires some mental self-discipline, which is too much for some folks. It is this:

We stop voting "party ticket" and start voting in actual Constitutionalists.

Oh, and parents actually raising their children might help out, too....

Amen and don't forget we start helping to educate our kids and not rely on our brain washing indoctrinating school systems, in other words restore the family and it'd values.

Okay BUT,

What would happen if all the above has come to pass and a NEW Form of government was established!
Do you really think that the current Constitution would be reused and the Government would be restored the way the founders envisioned it, or do you think that it would be modified to fit the new visions, or will it be done away with and a complete new form of government be put in place?
What would be the merits?
Would we have the same God Given Rights knowing that there is an element that wants God completely out of the picture?
Would what we call the U.S.A. be a single country or would each state be on it's own? You know that the Roman Empire went through several forms of government what is to say that the U.S.A. will not be the same.
It was hard enough to get the original 13 states to agree now you have 50 and 2 of those are geographically separated

Just some thoughts to ponder

Don't get hung up on what is happening today or this election but think instead from the View point if you were selected as one of the New Founding Fathers how would you approach these
problems.

[quote="Taggure"]Okay BUT,

What would happen if all the above has come to pass and a NEW Form of government was established!

I think it would open the door to a take over by the fastest acting organization who can seize control by what ever means. No it will not look like anything we have now. What would it look like? Look at history: Germany, Russia almost any country in Europe or the east. History does repeat if you don't study it. Will it happen here? Maybe in my life time but in my sons lifetime (good chance)

I agree that history repeats itself, and that is one of the reasons that I started this thread was to get folks to think about that.
Look at the power struggle that is going on in just this election. What is its root cause?

IMHO it has only really been a Smack in the face that woke me up over the Last 6 years after what Bush was doing with the spending the price of Gas when it went to $4 a gallon and Congress left on vacation in August without addressing issues, and then follow up with Obama for the past 2 years.
The spending is NOT the cause of the power struggle that is just what made folk start paying attention to all of this. It is the way the government is acting in general that is really making folks take notice and get upset now that they have been focusing on the problems. These types of actions have been going on with the government for the past 80 or so years but folks are only just now really paying attention to it.
I heard a statement the other day that went something like this “The Government will allow you to do this” whatever happened to the States/People allowing the Government to do something instead?
The TEA party I think is just the start of things to come as I think that both sides (R & D) will have to take notice of their issues on spending and bloated government expenses, but we have other issues that need addressed as well like Boarder Security and all the issues that go along with that, and Private sector Unemployment.

There are some now mostly on the Left that want the Constitution to look at as a Living Document that could and Should be changed to meet the society of today.

So in a New Government How will the Constitution be viewed? As a legacy to say that was how we used to do things, or as a firm platform to make adjustments from, or be completely thrown away and a European style of Government emerge?

Come on folks think about this. What are some of the arguments that you could make to save and return our government back to what our Founding Fathers meant it to be, or do we look at our government with new eyes and plot a way forward because you know that there will never be a return back to limited federal government.

If it ever comes down to that, it is unlikely that the country will remain in one piece and the new government will be based on who has the biggest guns.

Taggure wrote:I agree that history repeats itself, and that is one of the reasons that I started this thread was to get folks to think about that.
Look at the power struggle that is going on in just this election. What is its root cause?

IMHO it has only really been a Smack in the face that woke me up over the Last 6 years after what Bush was doing with the spending the price of Gas when it went to $4 a gallon and Congress left on vacation in August without addressing issues,.

okay I was following till that

first what do you think Bush had to do w/ the price of gas???? are you one of these people ??? let me guess he planed 9/11 too right ?????

congress need not to address the price of gas unles you want them to address the tax on gas which makes up about a third of the price of gas

do you also blame the president which the price of a big Mac goes up, or a pack of gum????

the federal govenment should stay out of the way not putting their greedy fingers and insane taxes into private industry....gas prices are high casue we will pay the high prices....don't drag the government into this my healthcare already costs more than it did last year thanks to them


our gov is out of control they make bigger and bigger agencies to use our tax dollars and pass high and higher taxes ....in bush second term they spent way too much money but don't forget that was also a Dem control congress that has to okay the spending...but if you want to start blaming bush for gas prices you need to research a little more and point your angst at the right source...and if your relly upset about it you could always ride a bike

Folks haven't you figured out that voting is not enough? The way things currently work is one butthole is voted out to make room for another. Our government is playing a game with all of us. A small group of the power elite control our country. How the hell can we actually walk away from the poll feeling good about voting when THEY set up the choices for us.

If we really want to take our country back then we must get our minds around this fact -- VOTING IS NOT ENOUGH.

Write that on a 3x5 card and put it in your pocket. On the back write - "THEY SET UP OUR CHOICES FOR CANDIDATES"

Read those things a few times each day and think about current situation. Maybe when we all get pissed enough there can be intelligent discourse about a solution.

Yes, I know - My solution or at least one alternative?

Let us remember on 2 November after we perform our sacred duty of voting that our responsibilities as citizens does not end but begins. It is no longer enough, nor IMHO has it ever been, to merely pull the lever and walk away satisfied. If we truly love our country we must be prepared to make sacrifices when our elected leaders stray from the Constitution and turn their faces from our cries. Voicing our opinion or petitioning our grievance is no longer enough for they have not listened in the past. If they heed our cries in the future and govern according to the letter and spirit of the Constitution then let us be satisfied. Otherwise let us take up our families, friends, neighbors and descend upon their offices in such numbers that they will be left with no choice but to heed our petitions. We will not go with violence but with peaceful solutions to our grievances. This, and only this, coupled with a massive presence of peaceful citizens dedicated to the Constitution will turn their deaf ears. Remember fellow citizens that peaceful assembly is our Constitutional right. If they do not adhere to the Constitution then we must or all is lost...

Our whole way of effecting "change" in this country is to follow the popularity campaign of 2 or 3 people...almost always of the power elite class. Read ANY news bit on ANY of the current races and almost always the focus is either on how much money they have raised or spent and/or mud slinging...

Absolutely sickening...

The elected elite needs to know that we the people will hold them accountable and not merely by TRYING to vote them out.

And the TEA party...several may get elected but the good ole boys are already figuring out who gets the power positions on what committees...they may throw the TEA party a bone or two but they will all most likely sit at the botom of the food chain for a while...

And regarding "REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER" --- we better remember every day...2, 4, or 6 years is a long way to wait while criminals rape and pillage our country and control OUR lives.

Oh, am I pissed...YOU BET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will I vote...absolutely but we must have something more...

Assuiming there was a meltdown, chaos, anarchy and a government failure. Why would it be necessary to return to the United States? I could see where several regional goverments could pop up and the US became several smaller countries. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if Mexico got California back...

grumpyMSG wrote:Assuiming there was a meltdown, chaos, anarchy and a government failure. Why would it be necessary to return to the United States? I could see where several regional goverments could pop up and the US became several smaller countries. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if Mexico got California back...

I see something like this happening if the "meltdown" is worldwide. If its localized to the US there are 2 possibilities that pop up immediately:

1. Always at least 1 side internally with power that would probably immediately assume control of the whole deal and press on with number 2 below as a pressing motivation.

2. The power vacuum would be filled by a foreign power. There is very little chance that certain countries would merely sit by and watch...well, they would until they felt the situation softened up enough to move in...

Ah so grasshopper!!!! Bawongggg!! (gong sound for effect)

Taggure - in your scenario I think you are leaving out the wild cards; China, A-Q/Taliban (AQT), Iran, Pakistan & The Mexican Drug Cartels (MDC).

A default by the Gov means NO ONE is getting paid, domestically or overseas. Your scenario leaves teh Military stalled at home and stranded overseas until the National Reserves are tapped.

China may see this as an excuse/opportunity to first blockade the US, then invade. We'de loose Hawaii and Alaska first. With a gun to their head Canada would grant the Chinese forces free passage and the invasion of the mainland begins. Base camps would be set up in the Dakotas, & Montana. While the population is well armed, it's too spars to mount an effective defense.

The MDC would see this as a golden opportunity to esablish a "beach head" along the Rio-Grande and flood north up the west coast. No moves would be made against Texas, AZ or NM - too well armed.

AQT would awaken sleeper cells in Chicago, NewYork city, Philadelphia, Washington D.C. and Baltimore. Regions of Shia law would be set up and spread through the unarmed populace as it picks up support from local Muslims and from comrades bringing in arms from states such as Virginia and WVA.

Iran would move immediatly against Israel while they and Pakistan (really, NOT our buddies) bolster AQT in the Mid East. As the US Forces try to pullout as fast as they can to return home for mainland defense, AQT would overrun most of Iran while the rest of the Arab states that traded oil for US protection shut down oil production to try and stave off all out attacks.

In the end the Mexican government falls as the MDC (bolstered by Chavez & Castro) set provisional territories extending into N-CA. The Mid/North states (The Dakotas, Wyoming, Montana, Washington, Idaho, Oregon, Minnesota, Nebraska) become a Chinese extension, maintaining a "highway" through British Columbia to Alaska. The North East (including Wisconsin and Michigan, down to the VA, WVA, Ohio borders) becomes a new set of Islamic states.

New America is defined by what's left. The US Nuclear fleet makes its way back from the far flung corners of the earth to defend the gulf, the southern Atlantic waters and the Atlantic Corredor to friendly nations in Europe. What's left of the Military is concentrated along the northern border against China. Civilan militas, the National Guard (in whatever form it takes) and mercenaries take the other borders. Oil rigs sprout along ecery coast of the US under a new Confederate Government with it's Capitol in Atlanta, The Republic of Georgia.

@jaywade

IMHO it has only really been a Smack in the face that woke me up over the Last 6 years after what Bush was doing with the spending the price of Gas when it went to $4 a gallon and Congress left on vacation in August without addressing issues,.


okay I was following till that

first what do you think Bush had to do w/ the price of gas???? are you one of these people ??? let me guess he planed 9/11 too right ?????

Well dont go jumping off the deep end there buddy and before you start Assuming things read more of my past posts to understand where I am coming from in my views. To answer your assumption NO I do not think he planned 9/11.

Tell me oh enlightened one remember about the gas prices a few years back: Why did President Bush continue to by oil for the national reserves when the price was at their highest ever. There was a huge outcry about it and yet he kept on buying the oil. That was irresponsible in my book and then his and the Congress was spending way too much.

@KaosDad

Great analysis that was what I was trying to get at. Thinking about things outside the box looking at all possibilities. If we can think about these type of things and develop contingency/recovery plans.

Vern

grumpyMSG wrote:It wouldn't hurt my feelings if Mexico got California back...

What about Arizona? That used to be part of Mexico, too.

Taggure wrote:
Well dont go jumping off the deep end there buddy and before you start Assuming things read more of my past posts to understand where I am coming from in my views. To answer your assumption NO I do not think he planned 9/11.

Tell me oh enlightened one remember about the gas prices a few years back: Why did President Bush continue to by oil for the national reserves when the price was at their highest ever. There was a huge outcry about it and yet he kept on buying the oil. That was irresponsible in my book and then his and the Congress was spending way too much.

what has not gone up in price??? everything cost more than it did 5 yrs ago or 10 yrs ago or 20 yrs ago..... the price that Mobil or exxon or BP charges you for gas has little to do w/ national or federal gas reserves .... and those companies set a price that they know you will pay, the gov doesn't help w/ the hefty tax that is applied to the final price of gas (almost a third of the price of gas per gallon is a tax)

btw I'm not a huge fan of Mr. Bush I just hate the "lets blame bush" game...and btw all the spending that was done in all but 2 yrs of the bush years was approved by a Dem majority congress....people always seem to forget that fact

jaywade wrote:

Taggure wrote:

btw I'm not a huge fan of Mr. Bush I just hate the "lets blame bush" game...and btw all the spending that was done in all but 2 yrs of the bush years was approved by a Dem majority congress....people always seem to forget that fact

And with a lot of Rep. falling in line also!
Don't forget>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nov 2010
Borders .... Closed ....
Language .... English ....
Culture .... Constitution ....
Bill of Rights and the BIBLE!
NOVEMBER 2, 2010
"CHANGE" IS COMING

We the people are coming!