I'm not sure what I want

[Drewsifer]

Hey guys,

I'm sort of in a weird place right now. I just got out of the Army, and I want to start shooting on my own. Only problem is, I feel like I don't even know where to start. I'd only shot a few .22's before I joined. Everything I know about guns is about military weapons. So recently I bought a Mosin Nagant at a gun show. And every time I want to go out and shoot it, I think, "Oh poop I don't have targets, cleaning supplies, or anything!". So I don't go.

So I guess I'm asking, how do you get started? Should I splurge, and just order everything I need? I know this seems like a really silly question. Should I look at getting a rifle I'm more familiar with? Just looking for some input.

Drew

[Taggure]

well Targets and cleaning supplys can be had from Wally World and they wont break the bank. then it is just a matter of collecting stuff to go with it all,like Ammo/Dry Boxes ( again Wally world has them for about $10 or so) shooting bags and other such things that make the experiance more enjoyable

Vern

[Mindflayer]

Dick's also has the stuff you need, as will most outdoor stores. You can also order some nice starter kits from Cabela's and Brownell's. I'm a newb myself - ask lots of questions and you'll get lots of answers.

[ShortMan]

Rifles dont need background checks. Get a bolt action Remington 22.

Buy ammo from Walmart, and hearing & eye protection. And targets. Or search Google for printable targets and make your own. Staple or tape them to cardboard.
Eventually you will want a range bag to keep everything in one place. Realistically you could use a cheap Walmart duffle bag and not spend a lot of money.
Cleaning supplies should probably come from a gun store. I recommend a foaming cleaner and basic gun lubricant. Read the manual for cleaning and lubricating instructions. Also, I recommend a Bore Snake in 22 caliber. Makes like much easier than a pole and brush set.
I recommend a lock for the gun, if it doesnt come with one.
Or a sturdy locking case.

[Diomed]

Eh, don't worry about it. As you shoot more, you'll figure out through experience what you need (and what you don't). So don't buy a ton of crap right off, as some of it will just wind up gathering dust. Pick up stuff as you need it. Don't buy in bulk until you know it's something you'll use a lot of - and then do buy in bulk because it's cheaper and easier that way.

You can save money by using expedient items. Paper plates instead of fancy paper targets, old tshirts instead of purpose made cleaning patches, that sort of thing.

Rifles dont need background checks.

The government disagrees.

[RocKor]

OK lemme break it down for you, since everyone needs to learn where to start.

Buy some targets.
Either full paper targets, or cheap paper plates and target stickers. Wal-Mart is a good place. Gun stores, gun shows, and sporting goods stores also have this stuff.

Buy some cleaning stuff.
Your Mosin-Nagant should already have a cleaning rod and brush, jag, and other stuff.
( http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/kit009a.jpg )
If you want (or it doesn't come with that stuff) get a rifle cleaning rod with a bore brush and patch jag (piece of metal with a slot in it that screws unto cleaning rod).

Get some .30 caliber patches (or universal patches you can cut down to .30 caliber, see packaging)

To clean a gun, you'll need two things: Bore Solvent and Gun Oil. The bore solvent (Hoppe's #9 is a good brand, if not THE brand to use) is for cleaning the inside of the barrel. Also get some cleaning/lubricating/protecting oil like BreakFree, RemOil, or Hoppe's brand stuff (WD40 works in a pinch but there's stuff more geared for guns) and use it to LIGHTLY coat the metal parts of the gun (anything you can reach with a simple field strip) to protect from rust and dirt and to lubricate. RemOil wipes (sold at Wal-Mart) make it easy to wipe down a gun.

Grab yourself a spam can of 7.62x54r ammunition and head out to your local rifle range. I honestly can't see you spending anything close to $100 on everything other than the ammo, so it's not too much you need.

[CowboyT]

Well, the Mosin-Nagant is a mighty fine rifle, and you made a good choice. For a good hunting rifle, it's about the best value going.

Milsurp ammo for it is pretty cheap at any decent-sized gun show. Just remember that virtually all milsurp ammo in 7.62x54R is corrosive, so clean your gun with some Windex right after you're done shooting. Yep, Windex. It neutralizes those corrosive salts, so take a bottle with you when you go shooting. After that, then head home and clean it as you would any other rifle.

Reloadable 7.62x54R is also available, if you're a handloader. Prvi Partizan is the way to go here. It's reasonably priced, and the brass is said to last a good while. You can sometimes catch it on sale at places like MidwayUSA.

Mosin-Nagants are known to be accurate out to as far as 800 yards if you've got one in good shape. At deer distances in Virginia, you'll have no problem. The 7.62x54R cartridge is very close to .30-06 power and is often called the "Russian .30-06". Brown bear and moose are regularly hunted with them throughout a lot of Europe. I might be taking mine deer hunting this year, for the very first time, so I'll let you know how it (and I) do against the whitetails.

The rifle is a dead-simple beast. Really, there's not much to 'em. Once you take it apart and clean it to get the cosmoline out, you'll see what I mean. The bolt is the most complicated part, and even that's not saying much. They are also very reliable rifles. Remember the weather conditions under which they typically had to operate!

One thing I would suggest is considering a butt pad. Due to the sheer power of the round, it's got a kick.

Other folks have already told you about Wal-Mart and Dick's for general firearms supplies. Note that the Mosin-Nagant comes with a cleaning rod, much like K98 Mausers do. All you need for that is a general cleaning kit, and your M-N cleaning rod should thread right into your cleaning kit's handle.

For targets, that's really easy. Just do a Google search on "rifle targets". You'll find tons of 'em. Pick one or more that you like and run off a bunch of photocopies of it/them. That's what I do.

Also, hit up some gun shows, tell 'em you've got a Mosin-Nagant, and ask 'em what you need. They'll help you. Definitely stop by the VCDL booth, too. You'd be surprised how many of us own these rifles. We'll help ya get squared away.

- T

[CowboyT]

By the way, a .22LR rifle is also a good idea and a lot of fun to shoot. I like the Ruger 10/22, but Marlin's got a $100 rifle, apparently sold at Dick's, that, IIRC, Mindflayer's lusting for. It's worth a look.

Why a .22LR as well? Because the fundamentals of shooting don't change, and it's great for target shooting when you're not hunting bigger game. That, and the ammo is less than 4 cents/round. I underestimated how much fun such a rifle is to use. Also, something on the order of a Mosin-Nagant is a bit much for things like hunting rabbits. A .22LR will preserve the meat where the 7.62x54R will vaporize him--not exactly conducive to a good dinner.

[jrswanson1]

Most ranges sell targets. One thing I'm not sure about regarding 7.62x54R is whether the ammo is corrosive or not, as that entails a whole lot of other things. Since you are prior military, why not snag an AR and use that? You're already familiar with it, and I'm sure you know how to clean it and use it. If we knew where you were, we could point out a range you could go to and I'm sure someone there could help out.

Jim

[Drewsifer]

Thanks for all the help guys. I definitely have been eying an AR style rifle lately. I priced building one from Del-Ton Inc parts, and I think it came out to just under $700 shipped for the 16" barrel. That's pretty tempting.

So I'm thinking a trip to Wal-Mart is in order today, to pick up some Hoppe's #9, Break Free, and a cleaning kit. Gun Master had a 27 piece set, looked pretty nice. Then I just need to make myself sit down and clean!

I'm in Harrisonburg, so I think the nearest range is Hite Hallow.

[Taggure]

Let us know how it went as we all like range reports

Vern

[chfaunce]

So I'm thinking a trip to Wal-Mart is in order today, to pick up some Hoppe's #9, Break Free, and a cleaning kit. Gun Master had a 27 piece set, looked pretty nice. Then I just need to make myself sit down and clean!

For cleaning kits, I started with, and still have this:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting ... ning%20kit

They weren't offering the free screwdriver kit at the time I got mine, though. No biggie. I usually find that those "free" things usually aren't the greatest quality. I usually restock (solvents, cleaning patches, oil, etc) at my LGS. I'll put in another plug for Hoppes # 9. It really seems to work, and it doesn't have a heinous odor. I really like the fact that the cleaning kit doubles as a stand/brace for my firearms during cleaning - exception being most pistols, of course.

[Vahunter]

If your'e planning on using the mosin for hunting buy some soft point bullets. Don't use the fmj surplus stuff, it was made for shooting people not game. They won't expand resulting in wounded animals.

[ShortMan]

If your'e planning on using the mosin for hunting buy some soft point bullets. Don't use the fmj surplus stuff, it was made for shooting people not game. They won't expand resulting in wounded animals.

Bulk military FMJ is much cheaper and that why people like to buy it for range practice. But many ranges dont like you to use it because it punches through the ballistic steel they use to protect the pulleys and stuff.
We've been having that issue at my local indoor range with folks using military 5.56mm. People dont wanna follow the rules that say you have to use soft tips.
And it is indeed horrible for hunting.

[CowboyT]

Most ranges sell targets. One thing I'm not sure about regarding 7.62x54R is whether the ammo is corrosive or not, as that entails a whole lot of other things. Since you are prior military, why not snag an AR and use that? You're already familiar with it, and I'm sure you know how to clean it and use it. If we knew where you were, we could point out a range you could go to and I'm sure someone there could help out.

Jim

Good points here. Just about all milsurp ammo is corrosive. Fortunately, that's really not a big deal as long as you swab/wipe it with Windex right after shooting. People have been doing this with M-N's, SKS's, Mausers, and AK's for decades.

As for the prior military issue, I fall into that category as well. But I'm not yet sure that I want an AR. My goal for a rifle is hunting game, including deer, and you need at least a .243 to do that in VA. I've also recently been educated by gunderwood that hunting in VA is generally a less-than-100-yard proposition, so an AK might do the trick. I guess it depends on what it is he wants to accomplish with the rifle. Fortunately, we can have more than one.

[grumpyMSG]

Hey Drew;

Just in case you hadn't seen it:
http://vagunforum.net/meet-and-greet/st ... t6236.html
It's a shoot and greet at Hite Hollow which should be about a 50 minute to hour drive from Harrisonburg. One thing I can say about Hite Hollow is people out there tend to be friendly, but at times need to be encouraged to be a little safer.

As for what you want next, the .22 long rifle round is definitely the most economical way to get plenty of practice, you can generally get a brick of 500 to 550 for $20-30. whether you like bolt action or semi auto, a .22 rifle is definitely fun. I prefer Marlin's model 60, but you can't go wrong with Remington's 597 or a Ruger 10/22.

[gunderwood]

I use this with iron sights and a Garrett Cartridge 420gr@1850fps. http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/ ... 895SBL.asp
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp

Don't need a 45/70, but it is fun! Besides I know it works if happen across a bear. The 540gr@1550fps is the WY Grizzly defense load.

[RocKor]

Oh and for corrosive ammo, some say windex, some say bore solvent, some say warm water. The definitive thing you need to worry about is:

When shooting corrosive ammo (assume almost all 7.62x54mmR is corrosive, really) clean it immediately. Even bore solvent alone will be fine if you clean it soon, but if you want to be safe, mix a little windex (not important) with WARM (almost hot) water (this is what will get the salts out) and pour it in a bucket. Dip the muzzle in the bucket and use the cleaning rod with a patch to pump the water in and out of the barrel to wash out the salts then drain the barrel, and finish with bore solvent and oil and clean normally.

[gunderwood]

What a minute! I thought those Russian guns were impervious to everything? I thought the Russians would cross rivers by throwing all their small arms in until they piled up to form a bridge, then they drove the heavy equipment and tanks across and then picked up the rifles as the troops went across. No Russian gun has ever failed or jammed through such treatment either!

Now you want me to believe they will disintegrate in your hands if you wait even a few hours to get home and clean them? I'm pretty sure that during the era of corrosive ammo, soldiers didn't stop and clean their weapon once an hour. Of course if you believe the Internet commandos, I'm not sure why the US military ever bothered to do away with corrosive ammo considering how unreliable the ARs are in combat...I mean the troops are already cleaning the AR three times before breakfast and doing armory level maintenance between mags while in a firefight!

On a serious note, water, a bore solvent or anything with ammonia will work. Windex is probably the most recommended solution. You shouldn't store your gun without cleaning it and assume all surplus ammo is corrosive. However, you don't need to run a garden hose through it. Three things to remember.

1. You have a bolt action gun. There isn't much of corrosive salt or carbon getting anywhere other than the barrel.

2. These guns have lasted a long time with basic maintenance. As long as you you clean it reasonably well, I doubt you will do any more damage to it than decades of poorly trained and equipped Russian soldiers did.

3. This is a Mosin Nagant. The Mosin Nagant Benchrest Association just had a national record set for a 3 shot, 100 yard group of 9.37MOA. I know, very impressive for any Russian piece!

Just clean your gun like normal with a decent bore solvent and/or Windex, don't get lazy and let it sit for a week and you will be fine.

[jrswanson1]

As for the prior military issue, I fall into that category as well. But I'm not yet sure that I want an AR. My goal for a rifle is hunting game, including deer, and you need at least a .243 to do that in VA. I've also recently been educated by gunderwood that hunting in VA is generally a less-than-100-yard proposition, so an AK might do the trick. I guess it depends on what it is he wants to accomplish with the rifle. Fortunately, we can have more than one.

I have the perfect VA Deer carbine. I put a 16" DPMS 6.8 SPC upper on an AeroPrecision lower, scoped it with a Millet DMS-1. Match that with some SSA 110gr Accubond loads and I now have a 5-200 yard deer rifle in a handy carbine format.

Jim