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Yep. Every apartment complex I've lived in has had rules against storing certain flammable liquids or gasses, explosives, etc. Check your lease. It's an insurance issue, I believe.jrswanson1 wrote: And you can't keep powder in a building you don't own, so renters are SOL. Anything like that here?
Jim
Legally, as in state law. Not what the insurance companies say.chfaunce wrote:Yep. Every apartment complex I've lived in has had rules against storing certain flammable liquids or gasses, explosives, etc. Check your lease. It's an insurance issue, I believe.jrswanson1 wrote: And you can't keep powder in a building you don't own, so renters are SOL. Anything like that here?
Jim
Well, technically, you'd be violating the terms of your lease if those things are in fact prohibited, and you could therefore under the law be evicted for breach of contract. So, I'd start with looking at your lease - the contract between you and the property owner. That's kind of a big deal. It's more of what your agreement says with the property owner than what an insurance company says - sorry if that was misinterpreted. Again, every managed property where I've lived has prohibited explosive substances. So, your best bet might be to rent from a private property owner (house for rent, etc).jrswanson1 wrote:Legally, as in state law. Not what the insurance companies say.chfaunce wrote:Yep. Every apartment complex I've lived in has had rules against storing certain flammable liquids or gasses, explosives, etc. Check your lease. It's an insurance issue, I believe.jrswanson1 wrote: And you can't keep powder in a building you don't own, so renters are SOL. Anything like that here?
Jim
Jim
Diomed is right. VA has no law, but the local fire code usually does. Here in Loudoun county you can store up to 100lbs of smokeless powder, but anything over 50lbs has to be in a portable powder magazine. Over 100lbs is a commercial license. Interestingly the guidelines for a portable powder magazine are just that, guidelines so it appears (INAL) that you have some flexibility on your implementation of one.Diomed wrote:Check your county/city fire code. They will usually incorporate by reference the NFPA guidelines, which do have limits on the amount of powder that can be stored, effectively making that the legal limit.
Black powder storage is often regulated directly, since it's a low explosive.
IMHO, again INAL, those are CYA statements and probably could be shown to be non-enforceable clauses of a contract. Technically, there is no renter who does not store such things. If you have a can of paint, hairspray, etc. you are breaking the terms of the lease.chfaunce wrote:Well, technically, you'd be violating the terms of your lease if those things are in fact prohibited, and you could therefore under the law be evicted for breach of contract. So, I'd start with looking at your lease - the contract between you and the property owner. That's kind of a big deal. It's more of what your agreement says with the property owner than what an insurance company says - sorry if that was misinterpreted. Again, every managed property where I've lived has prohibited explosive substances. So, your best bet might be to rent from a private property owner (house for rent, etc).
Agreed. I just never tried to test that as a theory, and I never made any attempt to negotiate the clause. Kind of one of those 'better to ask for forgiveness later than permission now' kind of deals. Figured life was just easier that way - assess and assume the risk of I suppose technically violating the lease (which I'm sure I probably did by 'storing' ammunition). Granted, I didn't rub it in their faces by firing up a propane grill or anything.gunderwood wrote: IMHO, again INAL, those are CYA statements and probably could be shown to be non-enforceable clauses of a contract. Technically, there is no renter who does not store such things. If you have a can of paint, hairspray, etc. you are breaking the terms of the lease.
Also, I would argue in court that as long as you where within the fire code (under your local limit), by definition you are not "storing" such things because the fire code requires a license to store things like that. Under the limit means no license required and thus, no storage. None of this is legal advise though.
"Storing" might be open to interpretation, though - there wasn't any list of definitions in the contract, unfortunately, other that definition of the 'parties'.
Smokeless powder isn't an explosive. It would burn quickly, but unless you confine it to a very tight space, it won't "explode." There is a reason most fire codes only care about quantities larger than 50-100lbs. Black powder is a different story!Vahunter wrote:I had the local fire department tell me a few years ago that if my house caught fire they would stand a safe distance away and watch it burn. With all the powder I keep on hand there wouldn't be anything but a big hole in the ground.
True, but try explaining that to firefighters who know there are unspecified amounts of smokeless powder, black powder, primers, ammo, and who knows what else in a burning house...and see how quick they rush in...gunderwood wrote:Smokeless powder isn't an explosive. It would burn quickly, but unless you confine it to a very tight space, it won't "explode." There is a reason most fire codes only care about quantities larger than 50-100lbs. Black powder is a different story!Vahunter wrote:I had the local fire department tell me a few years ago that if my house caught fire they would stand a safe distance away and watch it burn. With all the powder I keep on hand there wouldn't be anything but a big hole in the ground.
Yes, I don't blame them. I was addressing the "hole in the ground" comment.zephyp wrote:True, but try explaining that to firefighters who know there are unspecified amounts of smokeless powder, black powder, primers, ammo, and who knows what else in a burning house...and see how quick they rush in...gunderwood wrote:Smokeless powder isn't an explosive. It would burn quickly, but unless you confine it to a very tight space, it won't "explode." There is a reason most fire codes only care about quantities larger than 50-100lbs. Black powder is a different story!Vahunter wrote:I had the local fire department tell me a few years ago that if my house caught fire they would stand a safe distance away and watch it burn. With all the powder I keep on hand there wouldn't be anything but a big hole in the ground.
I know that and you know that but try explaining that to a know it all fireman. Iv'e had a few rounds "cook off" in my burn barrel. No dents in the barrel and I can fart louder that that.gunderwood wrote:Smokeless powder isn't an explosive. It would burn quickly, but unless you confine it to a very tight space, it won't "explode." There is a reason most fire codes only care about quantities larger than 50-100lbs. Black powder is a different story!Vahunter wrote:I had the local fire department tell me a few years ago that if my house caught fire they would stand a safe distance away and watch it burn. With all the powder I keep on hand there wouldn't be anything but a big hole in the ground.
Yeah, a fireman that won't engage a burning structure only due to cooking off ammunition and smokeless powder is borderline negligent and derelict. There's far more risk from sealed cans (of the soup type) and pressurized spray bottles cooking off than from small arms ammo.Vahunter wrote:I know that and you know that but try explaining that to a know it all fireman. Iv'e had a few rounds "cook off" in my burn barrel. No dents in the barrel and I can fart louder that that.gunderwood wrote:Smokeless powder isn't an explosive. It would burn quickly, but unless you confine it to a very tight space, it won't "explode." There is a reason most fire codes only care about quantities larger than 50-100lbs. Black powder is a different story!Vahunter wrote:I had the local fire department tell me a few years ago that if my house caught fire they would stand a safe distance away and watch it burn. With all the powder I keep on hand there wouldn't be anything but a big hole in the ground.
Yup. Witnessed a couple of incidents where low brow morons placed C-rat cans on jeep engines without poking a hole in the can first...not very pretty results...Diomed wrote: Throw a can of soup in your burn barrel sometime. Or don't, if you don't want to risk injury. They're like hand grenades.
So what I'm hearing is a bunch of right-wing militia types are stockpiling unregistered soup grenades. I presume the only reason for owning such ordinance is to overthrow the legitimate US government? As a bigger threat to national security than jihad or unsecured boarders, the black choppers are on their way, please stand by.zephyp wrote:Yup. Witnessed a couple of incidents where low brow morons placed C-rat cans on jeep engines without poking a hole in the can first...not very pretty results...Diomed wrote: Throw a can of soup in your burn barrel sometime. Or don't, if you don't want to risk injury. They're like hand grenades.
Realizing that your post is in jest there is a more serious point of order...why would anyone want to overthrow we the people, that is the legitimate US government...gunderwood wrote:So what I'm hearing is a bunch of right-wing militia types are stockpiling unregistered soup grenades. I presume the only reason for owning such ordinance is to overthrow the legitimate US government? As a bigger threat to national security than jihad or unsecured boarders, the black choppers are on their way, please stand by.zephyp wrote:Yup. Witnessed a couple of incidents where low brow morons placed C-rat cans on jeep engines without poking a hole in the can first...not very pretty results...Diomed wrote: Throw a can of soup in your burn barrel sometime. Or don't, if you don't want to risk injury. They're like hand grenades.
You're right, that is a serious point of order. Don't we call those folks "career politicians"?zephyp wrote:Realizing that your post is in jest there is a more serious point of order...why would anyone want to overthrow we the people, that is the legitimate US government...gunderwood wrote:So what I'm hearing is a bunch of right-wing militia types are stockpiling unregistered soup grenades. I presume the only reason for owning such ordinance is to overthrow the legitimate US government? As a bigger threat to national security than jihad or unsecured boarders, the black choppers are on their way, please stand by.zephyp wrote:
Yup. Witnessed a couple of incidents where low brow morons placed C-rat cans on jeep engines without poking a hole in the can first...not very pretty results...