Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

As I said in a previous thread, I haven't receive my concealed carry permit yet. How can I legally transport my firearm from point A to point B? Of course I received the nice GLOCK carry case, is it illegal to carry the firearm in my truck in the case? Should the gun be lying in the seat free of a magazine? Is it legal for me have the gun on my hip in a holster, visable of course w/out a Conceal carry permit?

Since Virginia allows Open Carry, you don't need a permit as long as the weapon is visible.
Seated in a car, that is pushing a fine line. To be on the safe side, the best way to transport
a weapon is to remove the loaded magazine from the weapon and store them in different locations.
For instance, place the magazine in the glove box and the pistol in the trunk.

The last place you want to be, is in court defending yourself against some Anti-Gun prosecutor
with a cop saying, "In Mr. Doe's seated position, his weapon was concealed from view. As such,
I arrested Mr. Doe for carrying a concealed weapon without a permit."

alby wrote:Since Virginia allows Open Carry, you don't need a permit as long as the weapon is visible.
Seated in a car, that is pushing a fine line. To be on the safe side, the best way to transport
a weapon is to remove the loaded magazine from the weapon and store them in different locations.
For instance, place the magazine in the glove box and the pistol in the trunk.

The last place you want to be, is in court defending yourself against some Anti-Gun prosecutor
with a cop saying, "In Mr. Doe's seated position, his weapon was concealed from view. As such,
I arrested Mr. Doe for carrying a concealed weapon without a permit."

I'm confused. If your weapon were in the trunk would that not be concealed? So you are saying that having it lying in the seat beside you would be breaking the law, but in the trunk is fine?

Nate1224hoops wrote: I'm confused. If your weapon were in the trunk would that not be concealed? So you are saying that having it lying in the seat beside you would be breaking the law, but in the trunk is fine?

Let me check the law.

18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-308

3. Any regularly enrolled member of a target shooting organization who is at, or going to or from, an established shooting range, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

4. Any regularly enrolled member of a weapons collecting organization who is at, or going to or from, a bona fide weapons exhibition, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

5. Any person carrying such weapons between his place of abode and a place of purchase or repair, provided the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;



Overall, it appears that you can sit the weapon in the seat next to you, but it must be unloaded
and "securely wrapped". Which likely means it needs to be in some type of container or case that
is not easily accessible.

i recently asked a LEO about this as i do not have my permit yet

what i was told is that without a permit it must be visible
so once you sit down in your car and buckle up it would no longer be visible. at this point you would have to unholster and set it either in the seat next to you on the dashboard or some other place that would allow for it to be seen from both sides of the car without any obstruction

lucky for me i have a nice spot that the gun will rest in very nice and is open to view from all sides

Nate1224hoops wrote: I'm confused. If your weapon were in the trunk would that not be concealed? So you are saying that having it lying in the seat beside you would be breaking the law, but in the trunk is fine?

The definition of a concealed weapon is: "a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature."

This does not apply to weapons that are outside the reach of your person. If the weapon is unloaded and secured in the trunk, it is not considered a "Concealed Weapon" since it is not ready to fire and it is not within your reach.

I can't find a cite for this right now...but that's how it works.

cwats04 wrote:i recently asked a LEO about this as i do not have my permit yet

what i was told is that without a permit it must be visible
so once you sit down in your car and buckle up it would no longer be visible. at this point you would have to unholster and set it either in the seat next to you on the dashboard or some other place that would allow for it to be seen from both sides of the car without any obstruction

lucky for me i have a nice spot that the gun will rest in very nice and is open to view from all sides

That sounds right. So would it or would it be considered OPEN if you had it in the seat next to you in a case?

Nate1224hoops wrote:That sounds right. So would it or would it be considered OPEN if you had it in the seat next to you in a case?

In a case == "NOT Open". It's only open if the weapon is visible and is clearly discernible as a firearm. So, in a holster, on the seat next to you == Open.

allingeneral wrote:

Nate1224hoops wrote:That sounds right. So would it or would it be considered OPEN if you had it in the seat next to you in a case?

In a case == "NOT Open". It's only open if the weapon is visible and is clearly discernible as a firearm. So, in a holster, on the seat next to you == Open.

AllinGeneral:

Here is a curious question. If the police pull over a group of gang bangers with loaded 9mm Pistols and they all
place their loaded weapons in the front seat (lets assume 1 Driver / 2 in the back), can the police charge them in
anyway with illegal weapons possession?

All the time you see on shows like COPS, when the police find a loaded gun inside the car and the gang banger whom
they arrested, doesn't have a permit, he goes to jail for illegal possession. Does Virginia being an Open Carry state
void that assumption? Can Non-Permit holders just openly display a loaded firearm, detached from themselves, in a
vehicle?

alby wrote:

allingeneral wrote:

Nate1224hoops wrote:That sounds right. So would it or would it be considered OPEN if you had it in the seat next to you in a case?

In a case == "NOT Open". It's only open if the weapon is visible and is clearly discernible as a firearm. So, in a holster, on the seat next to you == Open.

AllinGeneral:

Here is a curious question. If the police pull over a group of gang bangers with loaded 9mm Pistols and they all
place their loaded weapons in the front seat (lets assume 1 Driver / 2 in the back), can the police charge them in
anyway with illegal weapons possession?

All the time you see on shows like COPS, when the police find a loaded gun inside the car and the gang banger whom
they arrested, doesn't have a permit, he goes to jail for illegal possession. Does Virginia being an Open Carry state
void that assumption? Can Non-Permit holders just openly display a loaded firearm, detached from themselves, in a
vehicle?

IANAL!

I would guess that the officer would first call for backup, then run their licenses and determine whether or not they were in legal possession of their firearms. If the queries come back indicating that one or more of the "Gang bangers" has a criminal record, especially a felony, then it can be safely assumed that they are not legally entitled to own a gun, therefore the guns in question could be confiscated and someone could be hauled off to jail. There are a lot of other ways that this could play out, but this is the first thing that comes to mind.

If none of the license searches turns up a criminal record, then they would get a speeding ticket and be sent on their way.

Now, what if one of them says "I don't have any identification on me"...well, I don't know about that one...

Remember - IANAL - but I believe that my way of thinking is at least close to correct in this case.

allingeneral wrote: IANAL!

I would guess that the officer would first call for backup, then run their licenses and determine whether or not they were in legal possession of their firearms. If the queries come back indicating that one or more of the "Gang bangers" has a criminal record, especially a felony, then it can be safely assumed that they are not legally entitled to own a gun, therefore the guns in question could be confiscated and someone could be hauled off to jail. There are a lot of other ways that this could play out, but this is the first thing that comes to mind.

If none of the license searches turns up a criminal record, then they would get a speeding ticket and be sent on their way.

Now, what if one of them says "I don't have any identification on me"...well, I don't know about that one...

Remember - IANAL - but I believe that my way of thinking is at least close to correct in this case.

I would agree with that... In that having a weapon readily available to somebody who isn't a permit holder would be
a violation of the law. This makes me wonder.. If you have multiple people in a vehicle, then by default you are
in violation of the law if none of them are permit holders. But if its just you by yourself, it appears that a loaded
weapon in full view is acceptable.

Now I'm gonna have to go dig back through the law to see where I remember reading that... But as I recall, it is
illegal to have a loaded and unsecured weapon in proximity of somebody who isn't a permit holder.

On 4/23/09 Alby wrote:

But as I recall, it is
illegal to have a loaded and unsecured weapon in proximity of somebody who isn't a permit holder

That is an excellent point I doubt many of us have ever thought of,..Be interesting to see the laws interpratation of that scenario!!

Here is a curious question. If the police pull over a group of gang bangers with loaded 9mm Pistols and they all
place their loaded weapons in the front seat (lets assume 1 Driver / 2 in the back), can the police charge them in
anyway with illegal weapons possession?

All the time you see on shows like COPS, when the police find a loaded gun inside the car and the gang banger whom
they arrested, doesn't have a permit, he goes to jail for illegal possession. Does Virginia being an Open Carry state
void that assumption? Can Non-Permit holders just openly display a loaded firearm, detached from themselves, in a
vehicle?

theoretically that would be correct. most of the time Cops is filmed in states that have the strictest laws that way you get more action in the show. the police could charge them with anything they want but the ? would be if it would stick.

given that you are of legal age to carry i dont seem them being able to charge you with a gun possession charge as long as it is completly visible and discernible as a firearm.

as for transporting in a case: i believe the way the law is read, for it to be considered concealed it must be 1. hidden from view 2. loaded 3. easily within reach

so if it is in a case and in your trunk you will not have a problem just leave the mag out and the slide locked open.
if you still feel like you are going to have a problem then what you can do is in big bold letters mark your case with the word FIREARMS INSIDE then there is no doubt that you are not trying to hide what it is

VBshooter wrote:

But as I recall, it is
illegal to have a loaded and unsecured weapon in proximity of somebody who isn't a permit holder

That is an excellent point I doubt many of us have ever thought of,..Be interesting to see the laws interpratation of that scenario!!

if that was illegal then how can some who is not a permit holder even open carry the interpretation of unsecured could be understood in so many ways that it would be impossible for anybody to carry
granted IANAL

cwats04 wrote:

VBshooter wrote:

But as I recall, it is
illegal to have a loaded and unsecured weapon in proximity of somebody who isn't a permit holder

That is an excellent point I doubt many of us have ever thought of,..Be interesting to see the laws interpratation of that scenario!!

if that was illegal then how can some who is not a permit holder even open carry the interpretation of unsecured could be understood in so many ways that it would be impossible for anybody to carry
granted IANAL

It looks like I was mistaken. There appears to be no law governing the possession of a
loaded firearm, openly displayed, in a vehicle with passengers regardless of their permit status.
There are laws if children have access to a loaded firearm regardless of where you are at (car, home, etc).
But nothing about fellow adults. My mistake. I could have sworn I read that somewhere. I suppose my
eyes deceived me looking at Virginia Law in the wee hours of the evening.


So as it stands. You have every legal right to open carry a loaded firearm in a vehicle, so long as
that loaded firearm is openly displayed (ie: sitting in the seat next to you). Should at any time the
loaded firearm become concealed (ie: you left a newspaper on it in the seat), it becomes a concealed
weapon that requires a permit. And without a permit, you'd be charged with a Class 1 misdemeanor for a first offense.


COV 18.2-11. Misdemeanors

The authorized punishments for conviction of a misdemeanor are:

1. For Class 1 misdemeanors, confinement in jail for up to twelve months and a fine of up to $2,500, either or both.
2. For Class 2 misdemeanors, confinement in jail for up to six months and a fine of up to $1,000, either or both.
3. For Class 3 misdemeanors, maximum fine of $500.
4. For Class 4 misdemeanors, maximum fine of $250.

dont worry i have had that happen many times early hours play tricks on you

i bet you did read it somewhere but it was prolly a referance to some other state where a permit is a must to carry

Carrying in a holster on your side while driving is fine. Having the gun unloaded in your trunk is fine. Having the gun openly sitting on the seat next to you is fine.

We do a special class on the laws that you guys may be interested in. Its called the Intro to Concealed Carry in Virginia. It will answer alot of these questions. Many people get confused about the laws.

ProShooter wrote:Carrying in a holster on your side while driving is fine.

that is of course if you have a permit. if you do not have a permit and open carry this is not the case

cwats04 wrote:

ProShooter wrote:Carrying in a holster on your side while driving is fine.

that is of course if you have a permit. if you do not have a permit and open carry this is not the case

That is incorrect.

A firearm that is in a holster on your side would be fine in a car. It is still being carried openly.